Q&A Forums

1.2 lb wall foam Post New Topic | Post Reply

Author	Comments
Posted: Jul 16, 2007 01:09 PM	1.2 lb wall foam What do you think about 1.2 lb foam for use in walls? Where do you think the market is headed for 1.2lb foams? Is 1.2 lb foam going to replace 1/2 lb foam when it comes to wall insulation? What should I be looking for in a good 1.2 lb foam?
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Jul 16, 2007 01:33 PM	Are you talking about a 1.2# open or closed cell foam? Thanks, Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Posted: Jul 16, 2007 01:35 PM	I have only ever seen info on 1.2 open cell. Who makes 1.2 closed cell? Lets discuss both.
mason Posted: Jul 16, 2007 02:02 PM	I've got to admit that I am not familiar with a 1.2 lb density open cell foam. Who is the manufacturer?
Posted: Jul 16, 2007 04:37 PM	Apex has a 1.2 open cell. Arnette has a 1.2 not sure if its open or closed cell and I have seen a couple others but dont remeber the websites to look em up again. I'd really like to hear from the guys that are spraying 1.2 lb foams.
mason Posted: Jul 17, 2007 11:16 AM	Thanks I will look up their material data sheets for the physical properties. There are many factors to determining if a foam is right for your business or project. 1. Does it have the physical properties required for the job such as compressive strength, R value, permeance, dimensional stability, etc? The material data sheet will answer these questions. 2. Does the foam spray well through your equipment? Does it require temperature or pressure settings beyond the capacity of your equipment? Do you need to purchase additional mixers, nozzles, guns, mixing chambers etc. 3. Does the foam manufacturer have reliable and knowledgeable technical assistance readily available? 4. Is the foam stored and shipped conveniently and within the temperature, humidity and shelf life recommended? 5. Cost of material compared to similar products. Typically open cell sprayfoams are between .4 to .6 pcf and closed cell sprayfoams between 1.5 to 3.0 pcf. The ICC Evaluation Services Acceptance Criteria 12 on Foam Plastics lists 3 types of insulation and sealant foams and 1.2 pcf sprayfoams are not listed. While I am very familiar with pour-in-place 1.2 pcf foams used in manufacturing, (ice chests, panel manufacturing, etc), I have not sprayed a 1.2 lb density open or closed cell sprayfoam. So I would invite applicators with this experience to weigh in. I would expect a 1.2 pcf sprayfoam to have better compressive strength than 1/2 pcf sprayfoam but less than 1.5 to 2.0 pcf foam. I would also expect the R value to vary depending on the blowing agent used, water or HFC 245fa blend.
mason Posted: Jul 17, 2007 11:37 AM	More information> I looked up the material data sheet for Apex foam Platinum 1.2 pcf sprayfoam. It is 90% open cell, R value of 5.0 per inch compressive strength 10 psi. It has a perm rating of 3.55 per inch (ASTM E 96) The manufacturer recommends a working pressure of 1000 to 1500 psi and hose and preheater temperatures of 145 to 160 degrees F. The manufacturer recommends up to a 3 inch lift with an 01 tip and recommended ambient and substrate temperature ranges from 40 to 120 degrees F. It is a Class 1 fire rated foam. (less than 25 flames spread, less than 450 smoke developed according to E 84). I didn't see a humid aging test result on the data sheet(dimensional stability)
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Jul 17, 2007 11:42 PM	We have been spraying Apex 1.2 since last fall. Very happy with it. Got another couple projects coming up. At 5 R-value and 8300 ft² yield, that makes a pretty attractive cost-per-R-value. When we need strength, we go to 245 stuff. Like that too. oG
Thomas Kasper Posted: Jul 19, 2007 10:55 PM	I have seen a sample 1.2 lb foam. It felt quite strong, and it also had a thick skin. I've been thinking of trying some. Why does it have to be so hot to spray? Does the B side have to be agitated? It would be more inviting for me to try it, if the set up to spray was like the 2lb foam.
Posted: Jul 21, 2007 04:46 PM	Olger, What are you able to charge for the 1.2#? We normally spray .5 Demilic but it would be interesting to see in profit margins could be kept high and lower labor with less in the cavity? If you would like you may email me direct with this. jpgick@ffni.com
philip mullins Posted: Jul 22, 2007 06:53 PM	i,m still a newbie and havent sprayed any yet but, i say welcome aboard 1.2! sounds like a great idea. and i would like to hear more about the 245 olger mentioned. i would also like to know what you guys are charging. i like to keep my prices right at the going rate. probably better if we all do.
mason Posted: Jul 23, 2007 07:44 AM	Troutkiller, 245 refers to a sprayfoam that uses HFC 245fa as the predominant blowing agent. Foams made with this blowing agent typically are closed cell have R values in the 6.0 per inch range, density ranging from 1.5 to 2.0 pcf for insulation sprayfoam or 2.5 to 3.0 pcf for roofing foams) compressive strength between 15-60 psi (depending on the density)and perm ratings around 1.5 - 2.5 per inch. They are typically installed in passes 1/2 to 1-1/2 inch in thickness unless specially designed by the manufacturer for thicker applications.
Posted: Jul 23, 2007 12:07 PM	I would really like to hear from those who are spraying it where they think it best fits in in the market place and what kind of growth potential they think the 1.2lb has. Im thinking the 1.2lb could totaly replace the 0.5 lb. in walls. What do you guys think???
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Jul 27, 2007 08:34 PM	1.2 is a superior product to half-pound foam. Good stuff.
FirstName LastName Posted: Aug 06, 2007 09:53 PM	i use 1.2 alot it take a good understanding of how to use it. u must try with the ranges to make it spray with good yield and not let it shrink. fine line for profitability. call backs lose all of it.spray it at 2" without the right settings and it can reduce to 1". be careful and try it on your own job first.
Posted: Aug 08, 2007 02:01 PM	Foam4me who's 1.2 are you using? Olger with the Apex 1.2 is there any issues with shrinkage? What are you seeing for actual sprayed in place core density (no skins)? How is the adhesion to the substrate and to itself? are there any weak points to the product I should know about? Have you sprayed other 1.2 foams? How do they compare? Olger when compared with half pound how much more are you charging for the 1.2? Give me a few pricing scenarios if you dont mind. I dont need actual costs just tell me how much of an up charge the 1.2 is (eg. 10%?????) Thx for the info guys.
Thomas Kasper Posted: Aug 08, 2007 11:41 PM	Is it sprayed at 140-160 deg? Why so hot? So it will react?
mason Posted: Aug 09, 2007 03:45 PM	Tom, The temperatures listed came from the manufacturer's material data sheet. So, they believe the high temperature is required for proper mixing.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Aug 09, 2007 08:27 PM	Dear Sir Foam: No shrinkage issues, except for one real minor time when the unheated whip caused a modicum of retraction on a wall assembly (about .00124 %). Start-up issue. No worries. We used another one pound foam two years ago. Liked some aspects of it, but the yield was not good. Apex 1.2 delivers the goods. Try a set and you can educate us on it. It doesn't smell the best in my opinion, but I got spoiled on the orange flavored Jaxsan 600 back in `88 :). Heat? About 150° You need to cook it pretty good to get the yield. If you see steam coming off of it while rising, you got it about right. Pricing... Pricing is somewhat of a variable. Figure up your material cost and double it at least. I hesitate to put a concrete number down because I fear that everyone who reads this will run with it as if it were gospel. It's always best to figure up one's own company "burden" and assign pricing to cover it with good profit. Too many people working for wages out there. Don't be one of them, is my humble advice. all the best, olger (sorry for hijacking the thread Mason, but they asked)
mason Posted: Aug 11, 2007 09:06 AM	Olger, No worries mate, First hand information with specific details is always appreciated and encouraged. Thats how we learn together.
Neil Autrey Posted: Aug 20, 2007 07:40 PM	I have sprayed the Arnette 1.2lb on 3 different jobs and had major shrinkage problems. I did everything the manufacturer said and it still shrunk off the wall sometimes 1 - 2 inches. I did it to cut down on my clean up from 1/2lb. but after all the shrinkage I quit using it. I also have used their 1/2lb and I thought it was crap also, no yield and it would not rise very well. I will never buy Arnette foam again.
steve westlake Posted: Aug 21, 2007 09:06 PM	I have sprayed the 1.2 lb foam on some metal buildings it works wonderful olger is right about the yield but if I were you and you were looking for a foam to spray in walls that is a step up from .5lb foam I would try a set of 1.0lb open cell foam from apex you can expect about 9000 to 9200 board feet out of a set. It has an r value of 4.875 per in and saves you a mountain of time in clean up verse the .5lb and you do not have to blow the 1.0lb very hot I think about 120 degrees should do it as long as you see steam coming off when it rises and i will blow it at about 1200lbs.. 1.0 is all I have sprayed in walls for the last six months.
paul rogers Posted: Apr 07, 2013 06:35 PM	Olger, So 6 years later, what is the word on the 1.2 lb open cell foam? Less labor to not trim .5 lb makes sense. Are you still using it? what were your yields? (thinking you may have dialed the foam a bit better 6 years later) Where do you buy it? Any good stories would be appreciated. (bad ones too) I am would like to order a set to try it out, but would to get an update 1st. I am tired the mess, and filling up dumpsters on these big houses. Thanks
Cory Boehs Posted: Apr 09, 2013 11:14 AM	Razorback, I'm not Olger, but we are spraying this product, and love it! The rise profile is such that you can't do more than a 3" lift, but this is an amazing product for stud walls. Way more control than OC, skin almost like CC, and very easy to scrape off studs. We are getting around 9000 BF out of a kit. You can scarf it like OC. Call Matt Hugg at 641-780-7876 to get more info. (I'm a user, not connected to Arnette!)
paul rogers Posted: Apr 10, 2013 07:29 PM	Cory, thanks for the feedback. how long have you been using it? What temps and pressure? thanks.
Jesse Michalski Posted: Nov 09, 2013 01:22 AM	I saw a youtube video of someone spraying foam that was clearly a 1.2 lb. foam. I could tell by the rise that it wasn't anything I had used before. One pass and the guy was getting the cavity filled without having to shave anything. Shaving open cell is a real drag on 2x4 cavities and I am very intrigued by this product.