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Michael Fusco Posted: Jul 13, 2009 10:08 AM	APPLICATORS BEWARE!!!!! This is going to be my last post on this topic. I have been in this industry for many years, and have applied, sold and manufactured. Never before have I seen a situation where YOUR livly hood is at such risk. Most of you applicators are not members of SPFA. Yet this organization is busily setting policy and representing YOU with such groups as the ICC. The current focus of SPFA seems to be to make sure no one ever again sprays OCF uncovered in an attic or crawl space. This will drive up the costs of using spray foam, but more importantly to its sponsers, it will narrow the gap between ocf amnd ccf for the same application. Regardless of where you stand on that age old argument, I hope you all realize that OCF and CCF both work exceedingly well for thermal envelope applications. and there are places for both in the market. If applicators don't get involved in SPFA, and make your voices heard, you will find yourselves in a shrinking marketplace very, very quickly. How quickly? How about next year. That's when thet NEW regulations thay have fostered will start to take effect. AND YOU WILL PAY THE PRICE. I'm just a roofer...I don't care? Well, if I'm a guy who currently sprays OCF for insulation only, and my vision of the future happens....how fast do you think I'm going to learn to spray roofing foam? Can this really happen? Just do nothing and watch. Here's what I would do if I were still an applicator. 1. Find out which manufacturers stand where. I would not support a manufacturer who is doing this. 2. Join SPFA and get real active in the attic and crawlspace committee TODAY. or just wait and watch.....your choice
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Jul 28, 2009 11:01 PM	I wish I saw more reaction to this than the same couple of guys. Even some guys I've talked too sound interested when I talk to them, but then whne it comes to putting up some money for the SPFA dues, it might be hard to see the value. So how much do you pay for Advertising, Tradeshows, or how much would you be willing to pay for a new gun which would improve your sales closing rates and help make the jobs go quicker? Well, for the cost of the SPFA dues for a year, this is the year to do it, because you marketing woill be useless and your new gun will collect dust while you paint attics and crawlspaces twice that you just sprayed with foam. It's a small investment, with a possible huge return for the industry - to get some realistic testing information and code based on realistic testing. How nice would that be to have some realistic testing and codes that make sense? So you think you don't know enough about it to get involved? Well, Hog Wash! If you're spraying foam, you know enough to know when something makes common sense and when it doesn't and Your vote counts. So if you're not a member yet, become a member quickly and If you are already a member, then get involved with the Attci and Crawlspace Task Force. Your vote does count - but that's only if you're a member and vote based on common sense. Get involed today - or see you in the lawn mowing business when codes put us out of business - UNFAIRLY! Post your response to this Yea or Nea so we know where you stand! Jim Coler
Posted: Jul 30, 2009 03:07 AM	hey,,i got an idear,,, why not sub out the paint work to... painters,,,, or maybe just dont do attics orawl spaces,,,give em to the new hillbilly foamers,,,it will keep them out of the house,,lol re spfa: it is your only professional trade organization. you should be a member. be,,all that you can be,,, ps: dont forget to take the lawn care munchers of america sticker off your truck..lol
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Jul 31, 2009 11:30 PM	So, how would a painter fit in a tighter 2/12 attic or 14" crawlspace after we foam it and "properly" install not one, but 2 layers of intumescent paint to the manufacturers spec. In many cases it's not physically possible to do what they ask, but we are required to without them even considering the real life circumstances, so does that mean we're liable when it can't physically be done? Is bare foam any more dangerous than the previously existing condition of a plywood floor with lots of holes and maybe even a balloon frame house where it sucks the fire up through it? The foam is likely safer than bare wood and typical construction, but the codes don't recognize that! Jim Coler
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Aug 02, 2009 09:39 PM	It's all about people being fearful of liability. This mentality tends to kill business risk, and innovation. oG
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Aug 05, 2009 11:13 PM	I think you hit the nail on the head!!! Some foam manufacturers got spanked pretty bad back in the 1970s and these are the ones who are completely gunshy when you even say the two words "Fire" and "Foam" in the same sentence. Many of the cases I've looked into regarding fire and foam have not been fairly assessed at the contirbuting factor of the foam to the fire. I've heard of some recent examples of where the foam saved the building because the structural studs didn't burn through. It comes down to the politics of the industry and those who have been burned in the past say screw common sense, and just do what they want us to. This industry has been wrongly and unfairly driven by the media exposure of a few situations where foam was a contributing factor. It doesn't matter that codes weren't followed in 5-6 other ways and any of these could have completely changed the circumstances. It doesn't matter that it's an unrated thermo plastic foam (class C) which was used, it's still called foam and they're all the same aren't they? Well, it doesn't help that even veteran fire investigators don't understand how foam changes the dynamics of a fire and many think foams are all the same. It comes down to education based on facts! We need to educate everyone we can to dispell the myths out there. If it's based on truth and facts, then ultimately we should come out ahead - if we can withstand the political games being played. Kepe it going and the more we're involved, the more they'll start to listen to us.
Posted: Aug 19, 2009 06:01 AM	does anyone else see this trend??? if you cant beat em,,,buy em!!!! and then buy yourself some icc-es reports that are pretty specific as to how these products may be used,,,, hey olger,,,where is that spf roof training school??? ...its the end of the world as we know it....

Author

Comments

Michael Fusco

Posted: Jul 13, 2009 10:08 AM

APPLICATORS BEWARE!!!!!

This is going to be my last post on this topic.

I have been in this industry for many years, and have applied, sold and manufactured. Never before have I seen a situation where YOUR livly hood is at such risk.

Most of you applicators are not members of SPFA. Yet this organization is busily setting policy and representing YOU with such groups as the ICC.

The current focus of SPFA seems to be to make sure no one ever again sprays OCF uncovered in an attic or crawl space.

This will drive up the costs of using spray foam, but more importantly to its sponsers, it will narrow the gap between ocf amnd ccf for the same application.

Regardless of where you stand on that age old argument, I hope you all realize that OCF and CCF both work exceedingly well for thermal envelope applications. and there are places for both in the market.

If applicators don't get involved in SPFA, and make your voices heard, you will find yourselves in a shrinking marketplace very, very quickly. How quickly? How about next year. That's when thet NEW regulations thay have fostered will start to take effect. AND YOU WILL PAY THE PRICE.

I'm just a roofer...I don't care? Well, if I'm a guy who currently sprays OCF for insulation only, and my vision of the future happens....how fast do you think I'm going to learn to spray roofing foam?

Can this really happen? Just do nothing and watch.

Here's what I would do if I were still an applicator.

1. Find out which manufacturers stand where. I would not support a manufacturer who is doing this.

2. Join SPFA and get real active in the attic and crawlspace committee TODAY.

or just wait and watch.....your choice

jimcoler

I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs.

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Jul 28, 2009 11:01 PM

I wish I saw more reaction to this than the same couple of guys. Even some guys I've talked too sound interested when I talk to them, but then whne it comes to putting up some money for the SPFA dues, it might be hard to see the value.

So how much do you pay for Advertising, Tradeshows, or how much would you be willing to pay for a new gun which would improve your sales closing rates and help make the jobs go quicker?

Well, for the cost of the SPFA dues for a year, this is the year to do it, because you marketing woill be useless and your new gun will collect dust while you paint attics and crawlspaces twice that you just sprayed with foam.

It's a small investment, with a possible huge return for the industry - to get some realistic testing information and code based on realistic testing. How nice would that be to have some realistic testing and codes that make sense?

So you think you don't know enough about it to get involved? Well, Hog Wash! If you're spraying foam, you know enough to know when something makes common sense and when it doesn't and Your vote counts. So if you're not a member yet, become a member quickly and If you are already a member, then get involved with the Attci and Crawlspace Task Force. Your vote does count - but that's only if you're a member and vote based on common sense.

Get involed today - or see you in the lawn mowing business when codes put us out of business - UNFAIRLY! Post your response to this Yea or Nea so we know where you stand!

Jim Coler

Posted: Jul 30, 2009 03:07 AM

hey,,i got an idear,,,
why not sub out the paint work to...
painters,,,,
or maybe just dont do attics orawl spaces,,,give em to the new hillbilly foamers,,,it will keep them out of the house,,lol

re spfa: it is your only professional trade organization. you should be a member.
be,,all that you can be,,,

ps: dont forget to take the lawn care munchers of america sticker off your truck..lol

jimcoler

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Jul 31, 2009 11:30 PM

So, how would a painter fit in a tighter 2/12 attic or 14" crawlspace after we foam it and "properly" install not one, but 2 layers of intumescent paint to the manufacturers spec. In many cases it's not physically possible to do what they ask, but we are required to without them even considering the real life circumstances, so does that mean we're liable when it can't physically be done? Is bare foam any more dangerous than the previously existing condition of a plywood floor with lots of holes and maybe even a balloon frame house where it sucks the fire up through it? The foam is likely safer than bare wood and typical construction, but the codes don't recognize that!

Jim Coler

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Aug 02, 2009 09:39 PM

It's all about people being fearful of liability. This mentality tends to kill business risk, and innovation.

oG

jimcoler

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Aug 05, 2009 11:13 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head!!! Some foam manufacturers got spanked pretty bad back in the 1970s and these are the ones who are completely gunshy when you even say the two words "Fire" and "Foam" in the same sentence. Many of the cases I've looked into regarding fire and foam have not been fairly assessed at the contirbuting factor of the foam to the fire. I've heard of some recent examples of where the foam saved the building because the structural studs didn't burn through.

It comes down to the politics of the industry and those who have been burned in the past say screw common sense, and just do what they want us to. This industry has been wrongly and unfairly driven by the media exposure of a few situations where foam was a contributing factor. It doesn't matter that codes weren't followed in 5-6 other ways and any of these could have completely changed the circumstances. It doesn't matter that it's an unrated thermo plastic foam (class C) which was used, it's still called foam and they're all the same aren't they? Well, it doesn't help that even veteran fire investigators don't understand how foam changes the dynamics of a fire and many think foams are all the same.

It comes down to education based on facts! We need to educate everyone we can to dispell the myths out there. If it's based on truth and facts, then ultimately we should come out ahead - if we can withstand the political games being played.

Kepe it going and the more we're involved, the more they'll start to listen to us.

Posted: Aug 19, 2009 06:01 AM

does anyone else see this trend???
if you cant beat em,,,buy em!!!!
and then buy yourself some icc-es reports that are pretty specific as to how these products may be used,,,,

hey olger,,,where is that spf roof training school???

...its the end of the world as we know it....

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