CRYSTAL BUILD UP IN ISO LINES | Ask Mason Knowles - SPF Consultant | Spray Foam Technical Questions and Answers | SprayFoam Magazine Q&A Forums

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Author	Comments
thomas malloy Posted: Dec 11, 2009 06:24 AM	CRYSTAL BUILD UP IN ISO LINES wE JUST BOUGHT A 2ND HAND H20/35 OLD VERISON AND IT SAT UNUSED FOR MONTHS. THE OWNERS BEFORE US DIDN'T TAKE VERY GOOD CARE OF IT, SO WHEN WE GOT IT UP AND RUNNING EVERYTHING WORKED GOOD FOR 1 DAY AND THEN EVERYTHING WENT TO HELL STICK PUMPS, SEALS, DIRTY GUNS,YOU NAME IT WE HAD PROBLEMS WITH IT BUT WE FIXED ALL THAT THE ONLY THING WE ARE HAVING TROUBLES WITH IS ISO CRYSTALS THE HOSE BEING LEFT SO LONG HAS ALOT OF CRYSTAL BUILD UP I WAS WONDERING WHAT CLEANING AGENT WE CAN RESIRC THROUGH THE LINES TO GET RID OF THE CRYSTALS.
mason Posted: Dec 11, 2009 08:31 AM	I have never been succesful in getting rid of crystals in my hoses no matter what solvent I used. The closest I got was using methylene Chloride in the lines overnight and then followed with TCP set in the line for a few days. Then flush everything out with diesel fuel. I still got residual crud coming through the lines for weeks afterward. My advice, bite the bullet and get new hoses. PS, methylyene chloride is a very nasty solvent and I would not use it again.
Posted: Dec 11, 2009 02:51 PM	best thing you can do is spray with it take your screens out and trigger it alot keep on cleaning it out and it will eventually clear up. Turn the pressure up. We where on a large project and had the same problem we just keep cleaning the gun and it went away. good luck
Linerman Posted: Dec 11, 2009 04:40 PM	You have two options: 1. Replace hoses, costly but quick and easy. 2. Recirc the piss out of your lines with diesel fuel while constantly cleaning screens until you hardly see any crystals caught in the screens. Then tap into actual product and constantly check screens for the first few sets. P.S. methylene chloride is an ingredient in automotive paint stripper and will destroy rubbers and plastics, I would be hesitant to run that through the machine, it has also been known to cause cancer in laboratory test and burns like a SOB on contact:)
mason Posted: Dec 11, 2009 05:35 PM	I wanted to thank Spraypro for pointing out the downside of methylene chloride. That is exactly what I meant by it being a nasty solvent. As for the hoses, when the A side crystalizes, it forms a thin coating on the inside of the hose and everytime you bend it, more crystals of the set up A break loose. So, I have found it is a never ending battle. You get it cleaned then a few weeks later, you have to do all over again. New hoses are expensive but time wasted is also.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 12, 2009 08:31 AM	I have cleaned quite a few machines and hoses with iso crystals. Mason is correct, the walls of the hose get a layer of ISO build up like a clogged artery and then break off piece by piece in what seems like an endless supply. Recirculating solvents do nothing to break up the crystals as nothing dissolves or even softens crystalized iso, nothing we have found anyway. We use surf-x-flush to clean our parts and flush iso, but whatever the solvent is is irrelevent so long as it is compatable. Depending on the length of hose that you have, put 3-4 gallons of solvent into a clean 5 gallon pail. Turn hose heat on to 80-100 depending on solvent. Put on coveralls, respirator, gloves, eye protection, etc. Remove gun and open fluid valve. Have someone hold it over another empty bucket with a screen over it so that you filter the iso that comes out. Pull drum pump out of drum just enough so that the bottom of it is above the level of iso in the barrel and turn on air supply to drum pump. Let drum pump cavitate 10 times then shut off air, this puts an air bubble in the line. Wipe off drum pump and put into bucket of solvent, turn air back on. This will use the solvent to push the iso out of the hose that you are filtering through the screen into the clean bucket. Depending on length of hose, you should get 1.5-2.5 gallons of iso into the bucket before you get the air bubble. As soon as the line spits, you need to close the fluid valve. What you have in the bucket up to now is just iso, not iso blended with solvent, pour back into iso drum to reuse. Now take a new bucket and pour off about a quart, this will be a blend of iso and solvent that will need to be disposed of. Take the screen off of the iso bucket and put it over the solvent bucket. Now you are going to recirc the solvent out of the bucket, though the system, through the screen and back into the bucket. While you are doing this, you will need to have your entire hose spread out on the ground. While one person is holding the hose in the bucket, have one or two others work the rest of the hose. Pick it up and flex it back and forth as much as you can without the risk of kinking it. Bend it, bang it on the ground, smack it, kick it, just beat the heck out of it! Crysallized iso is very hard, but also very brittle and it will crack and break up. You will see the iso crystals in the screen. Keep this up until the crystals stop coming. Could take 2-4 hours or more. Repeat proceedure in reverse to refill system with iso and save the solvent for reuse. Even after all this, check your gauges often. If you see the A gauge going up 200-300 psi, stop and clean your iso gun filter. You could have a few more crystals, but should be minimal. Please let me know how you make out! You can call me if you need more assistance. George Spanos Spray Foam Distributors of NE Inc 603.348.8880
thomas malloy Posted: Dec 16, 2009 05:06 AM	Thanks for all you're help guys it means alot when you got a break down and you have free expert help right at your fingertips. great site mason. as for are lines we kept reciculating the iso throught the lines keeping pantyhose on the end of the line going in to the barrel we did this for about 20 hours we also stretched the line out and bent and banged it everyway possible,when we figured their was no crystals showing up in the panty hose we hooked the lines back to the gun and started spraying checking are gun screens every 100 strokes, for the first 500 strokes we found crystals but after that we seem to be good and been spraying good foam ever since.
mason Posted: Dec 16, 2009 01:10 PM	George thanks for the graphic description of the procedure for loosening up A side crystals in your hose. I used exactly the same technique years ago with varying degrees of success. One thing to look out for when beating the heck out of the hose, sometimes your heating elements can break during the abuse. So, if your hose heat is not working after this, that is probably the reason.
thomas malloy Posted: Dec 16, 2009 01:25 PM	That is a good point Mason we where very careful when bending and beating the hose. after all the problems we had that was the last thing we wanted to go wrong. once again thanks to everybody that posted it really helped us out of a pinch.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 21, 2009 08:45 PM	Remember DMF Mase? Eric Strombeck used it to flush hoses once - take the hide off of a mule it would... oG
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 21, 2009 08:49 PM	Spray pro - Methylene Chloride doesn't burn. Possible you are thinking of another solvent. oG

Author

Comments

thomas malloy

Posted: Dec 11, 2009 06:24 AM

CRYSTAL BUILD UP IN ISO LINES

wE JUST BOUGHT A 2ND HAND H20/35 OLD VERISON AND IT SAT UNUSED FOR MONTHS. THE OWNERS BEFORE US DIDN'T TAKE VERY GOOD CARE OF IT, SO WHEN WE GOT IT UP AND RUNNING EVERYTHING WORKED GOOD FOR 1 DAY AND THEN EVERYTHING WENT TO HELL STICK PUMPS, SEALS, DIRTY GUNS,YOU NAME IT WE HAD PROBLEMS WITH IT BUT WE FIXED ALL THAT THE ONLY THING WE ARE HAVING TROUBLES WITH IS ISO CRYSTALS THE HOSE BEING LEFT SO LONG HAS ALOT OF CRYSTAL BUILD UP I WAS WONDERING WHAT CLEANING AGENT WE CAN RESIRC THROUGH THE LINES TO GET RID OF THE CRYSTALS.

mason

Posted: Dec 11, 2009 08:31 AM

I have never been succesful in getting rid of crystals in my hoses no matter what solvent I used. The closest I got was using methylene Chloride in the lines overnight and then followed with TCP set in the line for a few days. Then flush everything out with diesel fuel.

I still got residual crud coming through the lines for weeks afterward.

My advice, bite the bullet and get new hoses.

PS, methylyene chloride is a very nasty solvent and I would not use it again.

Posted: Dec 11, 2009 02:51 PM

best thing you can do is spray with it take your screens out and trigger it alot keep on cleaning it out and it will eventually clear up. Turn the pressure up. We where on a large project and had the same problem we just keep cleaning the gun and it went away. good luck

Linerman

Posted: Dec 11, 2009 04:40 PM

You have two options:

1. Replace hoses, costly but quick and easy.

2. Recirc the piss out of your lines with diesel fuel while constantly cleaning screens until you hardly see any crystals caught in the screens. Then tap into actual product and constantly check screens for the first few sets.

P.S. methylene chloride is an ingredient in automotive paint stripper and will destroy rubbers and plastics, I would be hesitant to run that through the machine, it has also been known to cause cancer in laboratory test and burns like a SOB on contact:)

mason

Posted: Dec 11, 2009 05:35 PM

I wanted to thank Spraypro for pointing out the downside of methylene chloride. That is exactly what I meant by it being a nasty solvent.

As for the hoses, when the A side crystalizes, it forms a thin coating on the inside of the hose and everytime you bend it, more crystals of the set up A break loose. So, I have found it is a never ending battle. You get it cleaned then a few weeks later, you have to do all over again.

New hoses are expensive but time wasted is also.

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Dec 12, 2009 08:31 AM

I have cleaned quite a few machines and hoses with iso crystals. Mason is correct, the walls of the hose get a layer of ISO build up like a clogged artery and then break off piece by piece in what seems like an endless supply. Recirculating solvents do nothing to break up the crystals as nothing dissolves or even softens crystalized iso, nothing we have found anyway. We use surf-x-flush to clean our parts and flush iso, but whatever the solvent is is irrelevent so long as it is compatable. Depending on the length of hose that you have, put 3-4 gallons of solvent into a clean 5 gallon pail. Turn hose heat on to 80-100 depending on solvent. Put on coveralls, respirator, gloves, eye protection, etc. Remove gun and open fluid valve. Have someone hold it over another empty bucket with a screen over it so that you filter the iso that comes out. Pull drum pump out of drum just enough so that the bottom of it is above the level of iso in the barrel and turn on air supply to drum pump. Let drum pump cavitate 10 times then shut off air, this puts an air bubble in the line. Wipe off drum pump and put into bucket of solvent, turn air back on. This will use the solvent to push the iso out of the hose that you are filtering through the screen into the clean bucket. Depending on length of hose, you should get 1.5-2.5 gallons of iso into the bucket before you get the air bubble. As soon as the line spits, you need to close the fluid valve. What you have in the bucket up to now is just iso, not iso blended with solvent, pour back into iso drum to reuse. Now take a new bucket and pour off about a quart, this will be a blend of iso and solvent that will need to be disposed of. Take the screen off of the iso bucket and put it over the solvent bucket. Now you are going to recirc the solvent out of the bucket, though the system, through the screen and back into the bucket. While you are doing this, you will need to have your entire hose spread out on the ground. While one person is holding the hose in the bucket, have one or two others work the rest of the hose. Pick it up and flex it back and forth as much as you can without the risk of kinking it. Bend it, bang it on the ground, smack it, kick it, just beat the heck out of it! Crysallized iso is very hard, but also very brittle and it will crack and break up. You will see the iso crystals in the screen. Keep this up until the crystals stop coming. Could take 2-4 hours or more. Repeat proceedure in reverse to refill system with iso and save the solvent for reuse. Even after all this, check your gauges often. If you see the A gauge going up 200-300 psi, stop and clean your iso gun filter. You could have a few more crystals, but should be minimal. Please let me know how you make out! You can call me if you need more assistance.

George Spanos
Spray Foam Distributors of NE Inc
603.348.8880

thomas malloy

Posted: Dec 16, 2009 05:06 AM

Thanks for all you're help guys it means alot when you got a break down and you have free expert help right at your fingertips. great site mason. as for are lines we kept reciculating the iso throught the lines keeping pantyhose on the end of the line going in to the barrel we did this for about 20 hours we also stretched the line out and bent and banged it everyway possible,when we figured their was no crystals showing up in the panty hose we hooked the lines back to the gun and started spraying checking are gun screens every 100 strokes, for the first 500 strokes we found crystals but after that we seem to be good and been spraying good foam ever since.

mason

Posted: Dec 16, 2009 01:10 PM

George thanks for the graphic description of the procedure for loosening up A side crystals in your hose. I used exactly the same technique years ago with varying degrees of success.

One thing to look out for when beating the heck out of the hose, sometimes your heating elements can break during the abuse. So, if your hose heat is not working after this, that is probably the reason.

thomas malloy

Posted: Dec 16, 2009 01:25 PM

That is a good point Mason we where very careful when bending and beating the hose. after all the problems we had that was the last thing we wanted to go wrong. once again thanks to everybody that posted it really helped us out of a pinch.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Dec 21, 2009 08:45 PM

Remember DMF Mase?

Eric Strombeck used it to flush hoses once - take the hide off of a mule it would...

oG

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Dec 21, 2009 08:49 PM

Spray pro - Methylene Chloride doesn't burn. Possible you are thinking of another solvent.

oG

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