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jimcoler Posted: Jan 14, 2011 08:19 PM	EPA,OSHA, NIOSH Testing Data or not?? So, this may be the subject of a new tread, but what testing data does the EPA, NIOSH, and OSHA have that can support their claim that only an air supplied respirator should be used? What about with pre filters and high level filters including Organic Vapors/Acid Gases Respirator Cartridges or the Multi-Gases/Vapors/P100 Respirator Cartridges, Multi-Gases/Vapors Respirator Cartridges, Formaldehyde, Organic Vapors Respirator Cartridges,Organic Vapors, Acid Gases, HEPA Respirator Cartridges, Ammonia, Methylamine Respirator Cartridges, Mercury Vapors, Chlorine Respirator Cartridges, ....? The last I heard, they only did about 7 tests and all of their data was compormised by mixing of the sprayer and trimmer and no ventilation. So, how much ventilation is enough? These were the questions I asked them at the SPFA conference last year and they couldn't answer them. They only had subjective information to based their guidelines on. So what testing was done and with what filter systems, and what respirators and what ventilation?? I think each of these can have a significant impact on the amount of gases ingested/inhaled and the respirators do work! Otherwise, I would never of had a guy who has asthma doing the trimming and spraying! Also, the last I heard it was stil a guideline and there was no law stating that you had to use outside air respirators. Again, is OSHA is the law then I;d like to see where it is stated as such! Jim
Posted: Feb 05, 2011 06:12 AM	jimster,,this aint that complicated,,, liability chain... ,,,said lawyers,,,guns&&money(old hippy tune flashback but somewhat relavent)... i mean these entities represent the supply side of the industry,,,and the regulatory agencies,,they look at those folks primarily as well,,,and jim,,they are freakin out with what they are seein goin on out in the world,,,and they are freakin out at the potential to liability to what they have exposed themselves to in the retail marketplace,,, back in 98 they came around with the pretty placards tellin us we should shrink wrap our entire body,,,head included,,,put on a tyvek suit with hood and booties,,nitrile gloves with wrist cuffs,,,bootys over work boots,,,organic vapor full face respirator just so we could swap out the transfer pump from one drum to the other...you been told,,,were off the hook,.,, so now we have kits bein sold to the end user... hillbillies like me shootin in dust masks with ziplock bagS (yes,,,recycled) on our heads,,, and they are freakin out,,, they have created a monster,,,, and jim,,,we are all mutants,,of this here monster,,,
mason Posted: Feb 05, 2011 08:41 AM	OSHA, NIOSH etc do not tell you what to use and when. They say you have to prove to them with reasonable data that you can use air purifying respirators in specific situations. CPI took thousands of air monitoring tests by major chemical suppliers on a wide variety of polyurethane foam applications including, flexible foam manufacturing, OSB, spray painting, sprayfoam applications, foam blending operations, etc. They compared more than a dozen monitoring tests on sprayfoam applications over the years to determine which type of tests were more reliable (some tests could not detect the MDI concentrations reliably because the foam mists clogged up the test filters) and developed specific monitoring test procedures that were then used to conduct monitoring on roofs and inside houses. The recommendations from the sprayfoam industry are based on these tests. However, the tests were not conducted with added ventilation. I suspect that if you vented the attic space through a roof hatch or large soffits that you could use air purifying respirators. But, as I reported earlier, the contractor would be responsible for providing data that supported this. I think it is a worthy subject for research by SPFA and CPI. If you get a dozen contractors and a few suppliers to pony up for the research it would not cost more than few grand each I am leaving on a trip for the next 3 weeks, but if you email today I can forward the presentations on the research conducted by CPI related to sprayfoam applications masonknowles@aol.com

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jimcoler

Posted: Jan 14, 2011 08:19 PM

EPA,OSHA, NIOSH Testing Data or not??

So, this may be the subject of a new tread, but what testing data does the EPA, NIOSH, and OSHA have that can support their claim that only an air supplied respirator should be used? What about with pre filters and high level filters including Organic Vapors/Acid Gases Respirator Cartridges or the Multi-Gases/Vapors/P100 Respirator Cartridges, Multi-Gases/Vapors Respirator Cartridges, Formaldehyde, Organic Vapors Respirator Cartridges,Organic Vapors, Acid Gases, HEPA Respirator Cartridges, Ammonia, Methylamine Respirator Cartridges, Mercury Vapors, Chlorine Respirator Cartridges, ....?

The last I heard, they only did about 7 tests and all of their data was compormised by mixing of the sprayer and trimmer and no ventilation. So, how much ventilation is enough? These were the questions I asked them at the SPFA conference last year and they couldn't answer them. They only had subjective information to based their guidelines on. So what testing was done and with what filter systems, and what respirators and what ventilation?? I think each of these can have a significant impact on the amount of gases ingested/inhaled and the respirators do work! Otherwise, I would never of had a guy who has asthma doing the trimming and spraying!

Also, the last I heard it was stil a guideline and there was no law stating that you had to use outside air respirators. Again, is OSHA is the law then I;d like to see where it is stated as such!
Jim

Posted: Feb 05, 2011 06:12 AM

jimster,,this aint that complicated,,,
liability chain...
,,,said lawyers,,,guns&&money(old hippy tune flashback but somewhat relavent)...
i mean these entities represent the supply side of the industry,,,and the regulatory agencies,,they look at those folks primarily as well,,,and jim,,they are freakin out with what they are seein goin on out in the world,,,and they are freakin out at the potential to liability to what they have exposed themselves to in the retail marketplace,,,
back in 98 they came around with the pretty placards tellin us we should shrink wrap our entire body,,,head included,,,put on a tyvek suit with hood and booties,,nitrile gloves with wrist cuffs,,,bootys over work boots,,,organic vapor full face respirator just so we could swap out the transfer pump from one drum to the other...you been told,,,were off the hook,.,,
so now we have kits bein sold to the end user...
hillbillies like me shootin in dust masks with ziplock bagS (yes,,,recycled) on our heads,,,
and they are freakin out,,,
they have created a monster,,,,
and jim,,,we are all mutants,,of this here monster,,,

mason

Posted: Feb 05, 2011 08:41 AM

OSHA, NIOSH etc do not tell you what to use and when. They say you have to prove to them with reasonable data that you can use air purifying respirators in specific situations.

CPI took thousands of air monitoring tests by major chemical suppliers on a wide variety of polyurethane foam applications including, flexible foam manufacturing, OSB, spray painting, sprayfoam applications, foam blending operations, etc.

They compared more than a dozen monitoring tests on sprayfoam applications over the years to determine which type of tests were more reliable (some tests could not detect the MDI concentrations reliably because the foam mists clogged up the test filters) and developed specific monitoring test procedures that were then used to conduct monitoring on roofs and inside houses.

The recommendations from the sprayfoam industry are based on these tests. However, the tests were not conducted with added ventilation. I suspect that if you vented the attic space through a roof hatch or large soffits that you could use air purifying respirators.

But, as I reported earlier, the contractor would be responsible for providing data that supported this.

I think it is a worthy subject for research by SPFA and CPI. If you get a dozen contractors and a few suppliers to pony up for the research it would not cost more than few grand each

I am leaving on a trip for the next 3 weeks, but if you email today I can forward the presentations on the research conducted by CPI related to sprayfoam applications

masonknowles@aol.com

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