"forming" wet SPF foam | Insulation/Energy/Building Envelope Q&A | Spray Foam Technical Questions and Answers | SprayFoam Magazine Q&A Forums

Q&A Forums

Author	Comments
Posted: Feb 24, 2008 10:22 AM	"forming" wet SPF foam Does anyone have experience in smoothing wet foam in prep for paint? I have a 15,000 sf ceiling to do open cell in an old mill building and the beams are 90" apart- not the usual 16"- so I can't easily shave it. I was thinking of trying to "screed" or smooth it like wet concrete as it's being sprayed. Any ideas?? thanks. Peter
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 24, 2008 10:44 AM	That sounds like a real dog's breakfast. olger
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Feb 24, 2008 11:39 AM	I don't see how you could possibly keep it in the "cream" stage long enough to work the foam without it dripping all over the place making a HUGE mess. Spraying down on a roof is hard enough to make smooth enough for paint, now add gravity! Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
richard sucher II Posted: Feb 24, 2008 09:27 PM	You could try the metal "lattice" screen technique that has been posted on YouTube to cut down on planing. "Wet forming" of foam - no way. What I am curious about is your reference to painting this foam. This sounds like an exposed foam job that requires a thermal barrier - not paint - to meet code. am assuming that the foam is going in an occupied space. you could spray, plane and cover with "Ure-K" cellulose thermal barrier for a finished ceiling. What is the dimension on the beams? Go with closed cell for better control and cover with thermal barrier. Have you talked to the Owner about code requirements?
Posted: Feb 28, 2008 05:15 AM	you spray the foam smooth... open cell can be applied overhead to 1" profile particularly in the wide open space available... closed cell can lay to 1/4" profile or better,,particularly with the wide open spaces you describe.. and ignition barrier paint aint no thermal barrier...(remember its your liablity here too if you allow it to be done WRONG,,code or no code,,we have industry standards and the court will hang your booty) (i just bid a mill like this 7 months or so ago,,suggested closed cell with thermal barrier,,,guy is looking for cheaper bids across the state i am told,,,he wants cheap,,he gonna get cheap...CHEAP CHEAP!!)
Posted: Feb 29, 2008 01:36 PM	thank you all for your replies! My local building inspector says he has "no problem" with exposed SPF insulation coated with "NO Burn Plus" but I intend to get it in writing before I proceed. Also, I'll post the results of the job so you can see how it turns out. thanks again, and any additional ideas are always welcome! Peter
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Feb 29, 2008 10:38 PM	Just because the inspector is an idiot, doesn't cover your butt if/when a lawsuit comes about. Negligence is when you know something should be done, but chose not to do it for ANY reasons. Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Posted: Mar 01, 2008 09:29 AM	thanks, Tim!!!
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Mar 01, 2008 10:02 AM	GreenCocoon, I may have misunderstood you. I read the post to indicate that the inspector has no issue with exposed foam. I am not familiar with No Burn Plus. If it was exposed foam he was allowing then he would be wrong (and therefor the idiot!!) Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Posted: Mar 01, 2008 06:52 PM	Tim- No Burn Plus (Wadsworth, OH) is a intumescent fire reactant coating (interior latex paint) that foams up when exposed to heat and flame, forming a char barrier, or intact cocoon and deprives the fire of an active fuel source. Used on a framing structure yields a Class A fire rating. I will be visiting with experts on the subject this coming week and will let you know what happens. -Peter
richard sucher II Posted: Mar 05, 2008 01:07 PM	You are quoting directly from the no burn plus website. There is no mention of this material qualifying as a thermal barrier over foam plastic material - the only reference to foam on the page is the fact that the material can be applied to plastic material. Doubt that this material has passed large scale corner wall test for rating over foam - not even sure if it has passed the small corner wall test. Doubt that you will get anything in writing from inspector - you need to contact foam supplier and see what they say about the product. There are tons of these products out there that can be used on wood, etc and framing memebers to retard fire but standards for thermal barriers over foam plastic materials are much more stringent - not sure if this product fills the bill. Tried and true materials are Z3306 by WR Grace and "Ure-K" by International Cellulose - beware of claims made by others. Good luck. Ask for an ICC-ES report on product and see what you come up with.
Posted: Mar 09, 2008 12:45 PM	Cobb88-you are right- many thanks! NoBurnPlus is not sufficient. We are going with with Ure-K. -Peter

Author

Comments

Posted: Feb 24, 2008 10:22 AM

"forming" wet SPF foam

Does anyone have experience in smoothing wet foam in prep for paint? I have a 15,000 sf ceiling to do open cell in an old mill building and the beams are 90" apart- not the usual 16"- so I can't easily shave it. I was thinking of trying to "screed" or smooth it like wet concrete as it's being sprayed. Any ideas??
thanks.
Peter

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Feb 24, 2008 10:44 AM

That sounds like a real dog's breakfast.

olger

Tim O'Keefe

Posted: Feb 24, 2008 11:39 AM

I don't see how you could possibly keep it in the "cream" stage long enough to work the foam without it dripping all over the place making a HUGE mess. Spraying down on a roof is hard enough to make smooth enough for paint, now add gravity!

Tim
Granite State Spray Foam Co.

richard sucher II

Posted: Feb 24, 2008 09:27 PM

You could try the metal "lattice" screen technique that has been posted on YouTube to cut down on planing. "Wet forming" of foam - no way. What I am curious about is your reference to painting this foam. This sounds like an exposed foam job that requires a thermal barrier - not paint - to meet code. am assuming that the foam is going in an occupied space. you could spray, plane and cover with "Ure-K" cellulose thermal barrier for a finished ceiling. What is the dimension on the beams? Go with closed cell for better control and cover with thermal barrier. Have you talked to the Owner about code requirements?

Posted: Feb 28, 2008 05:15 AM

you spray the foam smooth...
open cell can be applied overhead to 1" profile particularly in the wide open space available...

closed cell can lay to 1/4" profile or better,,particularly with the wide open spaces you describe..

and ignition barrier paint aint no thermal barrier...(remember its your liablity here too if you allow it to be done WRONG,,code or no code,,we have industry standards and the court will hang your booty)

(i just bid a mill like this 7 months or so ago,,suggested closed cell with thermal barrier,,,guy is looking for cheaper bids across the state i am told,,,he wants cheap,,he gonna get cheap...CHEAP CHEAP!!)

Posted: Feb 29, 2008 01:36 PM

thank you all for your replies! My local building inspector says he has "no problem" with exposed SPF insulation coated with "NO Burn Plus" but I intend to get it in writing before I proceed.

Also, I'll post the results of the job so you can see how it turns out.

thanks again, and any additional ideas are always welcome!
Peter

Tim O'Keefe

Posted: Feb 29, 2008 10:38 PM

Just because the inspector is an idiot, doesn't cover your butt if/when a lawsuit comes about. Negligence is when you know something should be done, but chose not to do it for ANY reasons.

Tim
Granite State Spray Foam Co.

Posted: Mar 01, 2008 09:29 AM

thanks, Tim!!!

Tim O'Keefe

Posted: Mar 01, 2008 10:02 AM

GreenCocoon,

I may have misunderstood you. I read the post to indicate that the inspector has no issue with exposed foam. I am not familiar with No Burn Plus. If it was exposed foam he was allowing then he would be wrong (and therefor the idiot!!)

Tim
Granite State Spray Foam Co.

Posted: Mar 01, 2008 06:52 PM

Tim-
No Burn Plus (Wadsworth, OH) is a intumescent fire reactant coating (interior latex paint) that foams up when exposed to heat and flame, forming a char barrier, or intact cocoon and deprives the fire of an active fuel source. Used on a framing structure yields a Class A fire rating.

I will be visiting with experts on the subject this coming week and will let you know what happens.
-Peter

richard sucher II

Posted: Mar 05, 2008 01:07 PM

You are quoting directly from the no burn plus website. There is no mention of this material qualifying as a thermal barrier over foam plastic material - the only reference to foam on the page is the fact that the material can be applied to plastic material. Doubt that this material has passed large scale corner wall test for rating over foam - not even sure if it has passed the small corner wall test. Doubt that you will get anything in writing from inspector - you need to contact foam supplier and see what they say about the product. There are tons of these products out there that can be used on wood, etc and framing memebers to retard fire but standards for thermal barriers over foam plastic materials are much more stringent - not sure if this product fills the bill. Tried and true materials are Z3306 by WR Grace and "Ure-K" by International Cellulose - beware of claims made by others. Good luck. Ask for an ICC-ES report on product and see what you come up with.

Posted: Mar 09, 2008 12:45 PM

Cobb88-you are right- many thanks! NoBurnPlus is not sufficient. We are going with with Ure-K.
-Peter

You need to login to reply to this topic. Please click here to login.