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SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Dec 03, 2007 08:57 PM	Glas-craft Acquisition How do you feel about the merger? Do you think Graco will eliminate the machines? I have little experience with Glas-craft, but some contractors tell me they really like the P2 Gun. If this is the case, then I hope they carry on that line of parts, so I can add some new customers. What are your thoughts? Robin
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 03, 2007 09:12 PM	Most of my customers have glascraft equipment. I hope that they don't elimate any of the products, especially some of the new things that are in the works. George
Luke Kujacznski Posted: Dec 04, 2007 11:40 AM	I heard that Graco will stop making all the glascraft proportioners but they will keep the P2 gun. It sucks that all the equipment will now be coming from one company, watch for significant price increases
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Dec 04, 2007 05:18 PM	I don't think they will go up more than the standard 4-5% per year. There is still Gama, which will probably be more successful with the hydraulic machines. My 2 cents.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 04, 2007 09:58 PM	My thoughts? I have two of them. "Drat" "Dang" oG
Michael Flander Posted: Dec 05, 2007 03:57 PM	Interesting to say the least... From what I understand Glas-Craft is around a 20 million dollar/year company, and HPFC was less then 25% of it's business, so in all reality we are talking about a very small portion of business on the protective coatings side of things. The P2 is definitely Glascraft's strongpoint, so I can't imagine Graco losing that product line any time soon. This merger won't be final for a few months, so all we can do is speculate as to what they are really going to do with the proportioners/guns. With the P2 and Fusion in the line-up, I can't imagine them keeping the Gap Pro around though... My .2 cents.. Mike Flander
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 06, 2007 04:51 AM	Graco's arbitrary obseletion of Gusmer's machines may provide a template of how they intend to eliminate competition -- buy them out and stop producing their machines. I don't like it one bit. We have anti-monopoly laws in this country, and Glascraft has been one of the more trouble-free outfits in SPF business. Time will shortly reveal their intentions. The past president of SPFA (Buddy C o c k r e l l) was understandably irritated at Graco for the way that they stranded loyal Gusmer customers. The 20/35 was a very good machine, as is the MH. regards, oG
Posted: Dec 06, 2007 10:56 AM	As someone who is not in the industry but has spent the time, money, and effort to research it, here's my two cents worth. This IS a monopoly no doubt about it. The one thing that keeps more people from entering the field is the COST of EQUIPMENT, hands down. With a monopoly in place I don't see the cost coming down. Huge barrier to entry and a choking point for the suppliers who would like the world to insulate with foam. It seems to me that the equipment manufacturers and the suppliers have WAY WAY WAY too much control over the business. This is something I learned the hard way in another business. Unfortunately yours is worse. There is practically ZERO competiton now for the equipment and good foam suppliers are few. A huge lack of control for the contractor. These guys will determine your profitability. That being said, I don't think many of you will miss a beat. Unless something changes, I don't see too many new people entering the field. Due in large part to the cost of equipment and the price of foam. Which leaves you guys in a very good position of doing ALL the work with little fear of saturation. I met a lot of very nice people over the last year. But, it seems like the equipment and supply manufacturers have no problem throwing mud at the wall to see what sticks. It is definetely a buyer beware environment. Just my two cents and I could be way off.
Denis Commette Posted: Dec 06, 2007 06:57 PM	Check out Gama machinery USA on this site. We are there and eager for your business with quality equipment at competitive prices. And we do know how to provide customer service.
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Dec 06, 2007 07:53 PM	Gama. Do you have a site? The link provided in your advertisement slick is redundant as far as I can tell? Thanks, Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Denis Commette Posted: Dec 06, 2007 08:30 PM	sorry, the web site is under construction
Posted: Dec 07, 2007 08:45 AM	I heard that Gama does not have the staff to support a large industy. They look like copies of Gusmer any way. I will stick with Graco.
Michael Flander Posted: Dec 07, 2007 11:14 AM	>>>This IS a monopoly no doubt about it. The point I was trying to make is that Glas-Craft is a very small portion of the industry, so if this statement IS true, it was prior to this aquisition also :). >>>>It seems to me that the equipment manufacturers and the suppliers have WAY WAY WAY too much control over the business. I'm struggling to name an industry where this isn't true?!? The only time this would not be the case is if the customer themselves are able to set prices because of sheer volume(mcdonalds, etc.) We simply do not have "large volume buyers" on the contractor side. Those that we do have usually buy from a variety of places, so there is no centralized negotiating. >>>and good foam suppliers are few Makes it easier to sell against them?!?! >>>>That being said, I don't think many of you will miss a beat. Does anyone know the exact percentage of spray foam in the industry? Last number I saw spray foam was only 5-10% of the insulation industry as a whole, if this is true, there is room for a lot of growth, and I sincerely hope that it continues at the pace it has been. >>>> met a lot of very nice people over the last year. I second that, what a great industry to work in. I hope I am able to continue in this industry for many years to come. I have a lot to learn, which is why I try to stimulate these conversations. I want to learn the other point of views. And may even change mine with a strong enough argument!
Luke Kujacznski Posted: Dec 10, 2007 10:53 AM	Gama, Can you email me any information you have on your equipment.
josh degraauw Posted: Dec 10, 2007 12:28 PM	from europe: i had the gama 250 in my shop, and was tempted to buy the machine, in stead of that i bought the last h20/35 pro . i just couldnt convince myselve that they could cover their service yet i work with 3 machines all gusmer/graco. as far as the merger : if graco follows up on their machines service- wise they have a sweet deal with glasscraft. just throw everything exept the p2 in the bin... did not like the machines anyways. gusmer rules!!! (rip) josh
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 12, 2007 09:30 PM	So you bought a machine (20/35 pro) with no projected support from the manufacturer? Good luck to you. The MH (45-lb machine) is a real workhorse for polyurea. We have had tremendous success with ours, since `02. oG
josh degraauw Posted: Dec 13, 2007 01:59 PM	the other 20/35 lasted 4 years without any service from graco/gusmer. besides , in europe there is only one decent mechanic that can fix graco/gusmer stuff, and he's teaching me as i go... as far as glascraft: the one dealer we had in europe didn't know what he was selling and for stock he had one gun to take parts out of.. graco realized that for heavy duty their e-and exp machine will not perform, so they took a 20/35 apart ,slammed some plastic on and called it the h/40. same parts, same pump.. all gusmer..no worries for me... we have 3 pumps, 2 mobile riggs and spray nothing but polyurea all day (over 60 eurotonns annually) greetz josh
Michael Flander Posted: Dec 13, 2007 04:07 PM	Not quite the same pumps poly... they changed the checkball design and put new seals on it to stop the known leak problem with the older seal design. They also changed the hydraulic system itself to allow for a 3 gallon tank instead of a 25. Less weight. As far as same parts, the electronics are new. Graco did away with the temp control board and went to a modular system. The new system appears to be working great and is far easier to troubleshoot, plus the modules are interchangeable to allow the contractor to swap one for the other if needed. (You could take your hose module to heat the A if you needed and run without hose-heat as a last resort, for example).
josh degraauw Posted: Dec 15, 2007 02:15 PM	what i'm trying to say is, with all troubles/changes/mergers i'd like to stick to a machine that has proven itselve. so the only choice i had was the 20/35 pro. but to me its an aknowledgement that they put in gusmer parts. there is no doubt the h40 will perform perfectly. but what if its your bussiness that has to put bread on your table? besides, i have sprayed with the glasscrafts- exp's and even with the old h3500's. but what the farmer doesn't know he won't eat i guess. josh
quentin Posted: Dec 16, 2007 02:19 PM	I am wondering though, with all the mergers killing off the industry like this, has anyone thought of calling reps and etc to try and stop it? I would hate to buy the Glascraft setup like I am planning and then to have it dropped in a few months where I have no support or access to spare parts if needed.
Posted: Dec 17, 2007 12:46 PM	I think people are over reacting. Lets get back to spraying foam. Graco has been aroung since 1926 and is a very successfull company. They are not going to screw things up.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 26, 2007 08:08 PM	The Glascraft official I spoke with two weeks ago didn't possess 30% of your confidence. I hope you're right, but respectfully doubt it. regards, oG
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 27, 2007 09:29 AM	Just heard this morning from CPI, that the current rumor is that Graco will kill all the Glascraft machines and keep the P2 and possibly the Guardian. What good will it do? One satisfied customer is worth 7-angry ones. oG
quentin Posted: Dec 27, 2007 03:35 PM	Weird, I talked to CPI and they were unsure when I spoke to them yesterday. I talked to Graco and they had no idea what was going to happen but did state the deal won't go through until at least Feb. Glascraft is closed for the holidays when I called them yesterday so no word from them yet. Seems everything is being kept totally separate until the merger and then all heck will break loose. Graco talked a lot about supporting the Gusmer equipment and keeping the employees from what I have learned but the second the deal went through that all changed. At least from talking to a couple of former Gusmer people I met.
thayne teichmer Posted: Feb 04, 2008 10:28 PM	I would like some more info on gama and some pricing
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Feb 05, 2008 03:50 PM	Call Olga at (973) 429-5605.
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Feb 05, 2008 07:07 PM	Is that Olger's better half? Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 07, 2008 05:24 PM	Nancy is my better half.
Chad Hymel Posted: Jun 02, 2008 12:21 AM	Hi, i've been in the foam buisness for a little over 3 years as a sales rep and with some spray time clocked behind the gun. I'm now in the process of starting up a new company with some investors and I am contemplating which type of equipment to outfit our rig with. I am somewhat familiar with the graco e-20 and e-30 units with the fusion guns however i've been looking into the new hydrolic gama equipment. Specifically the evolution G-140H. I have heard they have fewer problems to deal with. Does any one have some insight on this? Does anyone own this equipment? any advice? i'm also debating on using APEX foam. I've sold other higher dollar foams such as demilac and ucsc/bayer and i know that cost is usually the issue in selling a job. Its a battle either way you look at it. but i'm still up in the air right now. any insight would help. Thanks
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Jun 06, 2008 02:30 PM	Foamwizard, I have some information regarding the differences, please give me a call. Robin 1-800-289-8272