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dave defehr Posted: Sep 09, 2014 01:38 AM	Graco E10 Hi guys, I really hope someone can shed some light on my pressure problem. First of all I have the heated unit and I spray bedliners with this machine. What's happening is when I switch to spray mode and turn pressure to 2000 psi, my "A" side gauge pressures right up to 2000 no problem but my 'B' side only pressures up to about 800 psi and I have to feather the "A" side recirc valve until pressures are even and then pressures hold and I can spray. This happened all of a sudden. Last week all was going fine. So what I've done to try and correct the problem is: tore gun apart and completely cleaned all parts and ports, cleaned "Y" strainers, took "B" side pump apart and cleaned (but not rebuilt yet), removed and cleaned recirc valves and took gun off manifold to see if there was any restriction when I opened fluid valves into tanks and all seemed ok. So If any one has any ideas on why my "B" side doesn't want to pressure up please chime in and let me know, any thoughts would be most appreciated. Thanks again
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Sep 10, 2014 12:39 PM	If you are having this issue before you spray, then you are not having a gun problem. I would say that your B side Y-filter could be dirty, or you could have a little buildup on one of the check balls inside the pump. If the B side pump ball was a little dirty then it wouldn't seat as fast as the A one. Once you got some pressure built up in the pump, it would help the ball seat faster. Take the bottom of the pump off and clean the ball and seat. When you put the ball in the seat and hold it up to the light, you should not be able to see any light coming in between the two. The seat is machined on both sides so if there is an issue with it, you can flip it over. See link at left for a manual. Page 8, parts 13 and 15 Good Luck! George
dave defehr Posted: Sep 10, 2014 08:51 PM	Thanks George for your reply.. What I did do is held the pump housing and put the ball and seat together and poured about an ounce of gun cleaner in and none leaked out, so I'm assuming there is no leak, correct?? Before I did this I did clean all lower parts as in the ball and seats. I have purchased a pump rebuild kit and will install on Thursday as I'm hoping this might fix the problem. When I feather "B" pressure up to 2000 psi it does hold but I'm confused as to why the "B" side pressure only goes up to about 1000 psi initially unless I feather "A" side recirc valve. Any thoughts?? Thx.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Sep 11, 2014 09:02 AM	Putting cleaner into the ball/seat isn't the same as it being under pressure. How much material have you sprayed through the machine? It could just be that you need a rebuild. Slightly dirty ball and seat could seat slowly at first until you had some pressure behind it.
dave defehr Posted: Sep 11, 2014 08:11 PM	I do agree with the cleaner in the ball/seat thing not being under pressure. I rebuilt the "B" side pump this morning and everything works great but when turning pressure knob to 2000 psi "A" still goes to 2000 and "B" only pressures up to about 1000 psi until I feather "A" side recirc valve to get "B" to 2000. When both are at 2000 psi pressure holds and I can spray with no pressure drops or problems. I'm still very confused by this. I appreciate all your help, and am grateful for any input you can provide.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Sep 12, 2014 10:04 AM	Are you recirculating to heat the material up before you do spray, or are you spraying with it cold? The polyurea material is much thicker on the B side than the A side. The colder the material is, the further apart the viscosities are. Because of the thicker material, the lower check ball on the B side is seating slower than check ball on the A side until you get some pressure in the pump so that it seats faster. The more you recirc the material to heat the tank, the less of an issue this should be. I am not familiar with what you are spraying so can't say for sure. George
dave defehr Posted: Sep 12, 2014 07:41 PM	Again, thanks for your reply. I do understand the viscosity thing. I am heating the material up to 150 degrees and I am spraying Armaguard bedliners. The E 10 will only heat to a max of 160 and mine gets up between 150 - 155*. I put in a new pump rebuild kit and everything does what it's supposed to except when I pressure up. One thing I noticed when I had the lower pump housing off ( the thing that looks like an upside down bell with three notches on it ) had a nick out of the inside where the ball and seat sit. I'm wondering if when pressuring up there is material getting by therefore not allowing the "B" side to pressure up evenly. I have ordered a new one so I'm looking forward to finding out if this might be the problem. What are your thoughts?? Thanks again.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Sep 15, 2014 08:50 AM	If the nick in the ball guide prevented it from pushing down on the seat, you could be getting a little leak by. Or if it was broken and let the ball come up higher than it should in the fill stroke, then it would seat slower, but if it just a nick, i don't think that is the issue. It could just be common with the material that you are using. Has the unit always behaved like this or is it a new thing? Is armaguard the only material you have ever used? George
mason Posted: Sep 15, 2014 02:42 PM	Have you checked the flow rate of each side? With the coupling block on but the gun off, fill a couple of buckets about half full with material from both sides (keep the material separate). If they are not equal then you either have a starvation or restriction on the side that is low. For example; If the A side is high and you have more A than B then the problem goes back from your proportioner to your transfer pumps on the B side. If the A side is low and you have more A than B then there is a restriction in your gun, coupling block or hose. I have had a hose get run over by a forklift that caused a restriction in one side. Took me a long time to find it. Had to take one section off at a time and check the flow rate until I found it. Your gauges will tell you if the ball is not seating properly. It will bounce up then down when it doesn't seal properly.
dave defehr Posted: Sep 15, 2014 08:50 PM	Thanks again for your replies. As far as the nick in the housing, I replaced that part today and it didn't make any difference. I took the housing off the A side and cleaned the ball and seat in there and it made a tiny bit of difference but not much. I haven't done a flow test yet but I did look at the return tubes when recirculating and it looked like the same amount of material was coming from both tubes. I was spraying a different material before but it was doing this then too. I have completely taken the gun ( fusion ap ) apart and cleaned it thoroughly and replaced all O rings. I have taken recirc valves off and cleaned and inspected them and they seem good too. I bought this machine used and I've had to do this since day 1. I hope I've answered your questions. Thanks again and all is appreciated. Looking forward to hearing from you guys again.
Randy Taff Posted: Sep 24, 2014 12:14 PM	Indyguy I am located in BC and used to work with Pinnacle when they sold Armaguard. I know the product well and would be willing to come take a look if that helps you out. Where is your shop?
dave defehr Posted: Sep 29, 2014 08:35 PM	wow! That's very nice of you. I am located in the Okanagan in Vernon. What would this cost me for you to come and have a look at what's going on? I think I have narrowed it down to needing a new hose set. I have replaced/cleaned everything else except that, and I have had issues with this pressure thing since I bought this machine used a couple years ago. I can get my pressures to hold and spray but they won't balance themselves. Let me know. Thanks alot

Author

Comments

dave defehr

Posted: Sep 09, 2014 01:38 AM

Graco E10

Hi guys, I really hope someone can shed some light on my pressure problem. First of all I have the heated unit and I spray bedliners with this machine. What's happening is when I switch to spray mode and turn pressure to 2000 psi, my "A" side gauge pressures right up to 2000 no problem but my 'B' side only pressures up to about 800 psi and I have to feather the "A" side recirc valve until pressures are even and then pressures hold and I can spray. This happened all of a sudden. Last week all was going fine. So what I've done to try and correct the problem is: tore gun apart and completely cleaned all parts and ports, cleaned "Y" strainers, took "B" side pump apart and cleaned (but not rebuilt yet), removed and cleaned recirc valves and took gun off manifold to see if there was any restriction when I opened fluid valves into tanks and all seemed ok. So If any one has any ideas on why my "B" side doesn't want to pressure up please chime in and let me know, any thoughts would be most appreciated.

Thanks again

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Sep 10, 2014 12:39 PM

If you are having this issue before you spray, then you are not having a gun problem. I would say that your B side Y-filter could be dirty, or you could have a little buildup on one of the check balls inside the pump. If the B side pump ball was a little dirty then it wouldn't seat as fast as the A one. Once you got some pressure built up in the pump, it would help the ball seat faster. Take the bottom of the pump off and clean the ball and seat. When you put the ball in the seat and hold it up to the light, you should not be able to see any light coming in between the two. The seat is machined on both sides so if there is an issue with it, you can flip it over. See link at left for a manual. Page 8, parts 13 and 15

Good Luck!

George

dave defehr

Posted: Sep 10, 2014 08:51 PM

Thanks George for your reply.. What I did do is held the pump housing and put the ball and seat together and poured about an ounce of gun cleaner in and none leaked out, so I'm assuming there is no leak, correct?? Before I did this I did clean all lower parts as in the ball and seats. I have purchased a pump rebuild kit and will install on Thursday as I'm hoping this might fix the problem. When I feather "B" pressure up to 2000 psi it does hold but I'm confused as to why the "B" side pressure only goes up to about 1000 psi initially unless I feather "A" side recirc valve. Any thoughts?? Thx.

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Sep 11, 2014 09:02 AM

Putting cleaner into the ball/seat isn't the same as it being under pressure. How much material have you sprayed through the machine? It could just be that you need a rebuild. Slightly dirty ball and seat could seat slowly at first until you had some pressure behind it.

dave defehr

Posted: Sep 11, 2014 08:11 PM

I do agree with the cleaner in the ball/seat thing not being under pressure. I rebuilt the "B" side pump this morning and everything works great but when turning pressure knob to 2000 psi "A" still goes to 2000 and "B" only pressures up to about 1000 psi until I feather "A" side recirc valve to get "B" to 2000. When both are at 2000 psi pressure holds and I can spray with no pressure drops or problems. I'm still very confused by this. I appreciate all your help, and am grateful for any input you can provide.

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Sep 12, 2014 10:04 AM

Are you recirculating to heat the material up before you do spray, or are you spraying with it cold? The polyurea material is much thicker on the B side than the A side. The colder the material is, the further apart the viscosities are. Because of the thicker material, the lower check ball on the B side is seating slower than check ball on the A side until you get some pressure in the pump so that it seats faster. The more you recirc the material to heat the tank, the less of an issue this should be. I am not familiar with what you are spraying so can't say for sure.

George

dave defehr

Posted: Sep 12, 2014 07:41 PM

Again, thanks for your reply. I do understand the viscosity thing. I am heating the material up to 150 degrees and I am spraying Armaguard bedliners. The E 10 will only heat to a max of 160 and mine gets up between 150 - 155*. I put in a new pump rebuild kit and everything does what it's supposed to except when I pressure up. One thing I noticed when I had the lower pump housing off ( the thing that looks like an upside down bell with three notches on it ) had a nick out of the inside where the ball and seat sit. I'm wondering if when pressuring up there is material getting by therefore not allowing the "B" side to pressure up evenly. I have ordered a new one so I'm looking forward to finding out if this might be the problem. What are your thoughts?? Thanks again.

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Sep 15, 2014 08:50 AM

If the nick in the ball guide prevented it from pushing down on the seat, you could be getting a little leak by. Or if it was broken and let the ball come up higher than it should in the fill stroke, then it would seat slower, but if it just a nick, i don't think that is the issue. It could just be common with the material that you are using. Has the unit always behaved like this or is it a new thing? Is armaguard the only material you have ever used?

George

mason

Posted: Sep 15, 2014 02:42 PM

Have you checked the flow rate of each side? With the coupling block on but the gun off, fill a couple of buckets about half full with material from both sides (keep the material separate). If they are not equal then you either have a starvation or restriction on the side that is low. For example; If the A side is high and you have more A than B then the problem goes back from your proportioner to your transfer pumps on the B side. If the A side is low and you have more A than B then there is a restriction in your gun, coupling block or hose. I have had a hose get run over by a forklift that caused a restriction in one side. Took me a long time to find it. Had to take one section off at a time and check the flow rate until I found it. Your gauges will tell you if the ball is not seating properly. It will bounce up then down when it doesn't seal properly.

dave defehr

Posted: Sep 15, 2014 08:50 PM

Thanks again for your replies. As far as the nick in the housing, I replaced that part today and it didn't make any difference. I took the housing off the A side and cleaned the ball and seat in there and it made a tiny bit of difference but not much. I haven't done a flow test yet but I did look at the return tubes when recirculating and it looked like the same amount of material was coming from both tubes. I was spraying a different material before but it was doing this then too. I have completely taken the gun ( fusion ap ) apart and cleaned it thoroughly and replaced all O rings. I have taken recirc valves off and cleaned and inspected them and they seem good too. I bought this machine used and I've had to do this since day 1. I hope I've answered your questions. Thanks again and all is appreciated. Looking forward to hearing from you guys again.

Randy Taff

Posted: Sep 24, 2014 12:14 PM

Indyguy I am located in BC and used to work with Pinnacle when they sold Armaguard. I know the product well and would be willing to come take a look if that helps you out. Where is your shop?

dave defehr

Posted: Sep 29, 2014 08:35 PM

wow! That's very nice of you. I am located in the Okanagan in Vernon. What would this cost me for you to come and have a look at what's going on? I think I have narrowed it down to needing a new hose set. I have replaced/cleaned everything else except that, and I have had issues with this pressure thing since I bought this machine used a couple years ago. I can get my pressures to hold and spray but they won't balance themselves. Let me know.

Thanks alot

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