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Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 04, 2007 04:03 PM	Just fired up our new Raider machine on Friday. Works well. Sprayed some beautiful 3.0 Freedom Foam with it. Sure is quiet, and the hose heats up quicker than our MH. Onward, oG
Posted: Nov 04, 2007 10:46 PM	3.0 freedom foam = 3lb?. im really interested in that proportioner. would you mind posting some more details? -type of application -stick pump fed? -how does it compare to an e-30? -what advantages does it have over your other proportioners?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 05, 2007 07:37 AM	Hi ND: Yep, roofing foam. The Raider is a small portable unit capable of 20-pounds per minute @ 1800 psi. It has 2 15-gallon "day tanks" on it. It can be supplied three ways: Day tanks Pump fed Siphon from drums It has a three-way valve on both sides to switch between supply options. I am using the day tanks currently to keep it portable (it is on wheels). In defense of the MH, I only have 100' of hose on the Raider and the MH has 315'. Plus, you can recirc the material internally on the Raider which makes for very rapid warm-up times. The rotary pumps seem to be very efficient and self equalizing. All the best, oG
Posted: Nov 05, 2007 09:12 PM	sounds like a good unit. Did you have to buy their hose? When i e-mailed their rep, he insisted that i use their hose. no reply on why. what gives?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 06, 2007 05:59 PM	Hi ND. PPC hose is preferrable to the other hoses we have used, because it is low amperage/high voltage. The other hoses (big G's) are low voltage/high amperage. That tends to "cook" hoses eventually. As I understand it, Gusmer foam hose is the biggest ticket item in their annual sales. Guess why...? Probably repeat sales. It shouldn't take much to outlast the other hoses. Time will tell -- I only have a week on the Raider so far :). Regards, olger
quentin Posted: Nov 10, 2007 09:32 AM	Since it looks like I am out of work again for a while, mind if I come your way and check out a couple of jobs with you Olger?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 11, 2007 08:28 AM	We'll see what happens, Quentin. Perhaps you could come to our shop. We are doing mostly spray-on roofing or polyurea this month, trying to finish up.
quentin Posted: Nov 11, 2007 10:04 PM	Sounds good to me. I figure it is a good chance to use some down time between jobs to get more info and etc on the business. Might be interesting to see some roofing done too since they need that a lot on base and it is my primary target at the moment.
Melvin Chandler Posted: Nov 12, 2007 07:59 PM	Olger, Are you just using it as a patch machine? I'm thinking of getting a dedicated 540 machine and a dedicated foam machine. I've got an H20/35Pro and don't know which way to go with it and what to use as the other primary. Are you spraying any other single component coatings? What type of sprayer are you using?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 12, 2007 09:13 PM	Small job machine, I'd say. We have three spray rigs. Be nice to keep them all running, but there is always down time. When work gets slow, you hate to see those trailers sitting out in the parking lot. When you're really busy you're glad you have them. Single component coatings? Tried a lot of them over the years. There's more acrylic coatings on the market than sand on the beach. Lot of urethanes too. Also tried silicones. If you have a 20/35, you better get it running. That's a lot of money sitting there :). Sprayer? We have 3-King pumps, 2-Bulldogs, and one 8900. Three large diesel air compressors for the pumps. To have two dedicated Pro machines figure on 120k (minimum) to get them outfitted properly. All the best,
Melvin Chandler Posted: Nov 20, 2007 08:53 PM	What's the best machine for spraying silicone?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 20, 2007 10:05 PM	56:1 King
Michael Flander Posted: Nov 21, 2007 10:50 AM	Olger, The 20/35's would have to be used also, last I heard they only had 1 or 2 left in stock at GRACO, and the price went higher on them. There are some suppliers out there that still have some left, but the H-25/H-40 use the same pump system with an improved(3 gallon) hydraulic system at a cheaper price.....
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 21, 2007 08:17 PM	Graco made a lot of enemies when they circulated that memo - alienating all those Gusmer machines. Buddy ******rell & I talked about it in Orlando and agreed that it was a bad deal. Not every contractor can afford to dump a decent machine to buy a new one. oG
Arville Brown Posted: Nov 22, 2007 11:19 AM
Jeffrey Souder Posted: Nov 24, 2007 01:48 PM	Hey Olger, Have you tried the siphoning from the barrels yet? Just curious as to how well this would work without drum pumps. Jeff Souder
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Nov 25, 2007 08:03 PM	Hello Jeff. Heven't tried. Everything else that Frank told me the machine would do-it does. olger
Tony Di Bratto Posted: Dec 21, 2007 12:32 PM	Where can I get details on the Raider machine? Did a search and came up empty. Thx
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 26, 2007 08:10 PM	Jeff: Tried siphoning. Works good. TB: Try Polymer Processing Company http://www.polyproco.com/ Ask for Frank. Gerry
Posted: Dec 29, 2007 04:05 PM	Olger few questions about the Raider if you dont mind answering them for me. 1)Are you pre warming the A+B to 75-80*F 2)what is the Delta T at full flow? 3) Does the machine have enough heat to maintain the set temps at full flow? 4) Max actual spray temp? 5)Max spray pressure?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 30, 2007 08:09 PM	Hi Mister: 1) Haven't sprayed in cold enough weather to require drum heaters yet. Also we're using 245fa currently in it. Wouldn't be good to heat that beyond 60°. 2) Delta is 55° 3) When extra heat is needed, I turn the primaries up to maximum (like with polyurea). That gives full strength heat. 4) The pressure is adjustable. Currently spraying at 1100 dynamic. 5) Back to the adjustable feature (they'll walk you through it). I believe 2100 psi is the maximum recommended pressure, due partially to heated hose limits. I have siphoned with it and it works fine. One thing I miss is a stroke counter. A volumetric flow meter could be added, but it probably wouldn't be worth the cost. The Raider is filling a need for us to have a small inexpensive, nimble machine. The day tanks are nice too. oG
Thomas Kasper Posted: Jan 06, 2008 09:50 PM	Hey Og, So what size are the 3way valves? 3/4 piping? threaded? Is it a small cluster where these valves are? Are you concerned about the iso side valve locking up? Foam on brother gota love a little portable machine that can get in kick some but and move on.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Jan 07, 2008 11:20 AM	3/4" ball valves. Not concerned about the evil ISO :). oG
john kring Posted: Jan 15, 2008 07:25 PM	Hello, I am from Ontario Canada (ccccold, eh), seriously looking for an entry level foam machine. Is the raider series with the day tanks for me, mostly looking to spray basements 2" for R-12 . how many square ft can it do in an hour. I've called PPC three times now for info, still waiting for the promised call backs. Would appreciate hearing the facts from a guy in the field. Also what percent yield do you get from a barrel set. Thank you for your time John
Posted: Jan 15, 2008 08:22 PM	I also contacted PPC several times with less than desirable response. I felt unsure of what would happen down the road when i had an issue with the machine. I personally know two contractors with an e-30, so if a problem came up i could easily trouble-shoot with them. I currently use a proprietary setup, and sometimes the limited resources for help have been costly! This wouldnt persuade me to do it again. Not trying to beat them up, just constructive criticism.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Jan 17, 2008 07:31 AM	I believe that the Raider would work well in Canada. I suspect that PPC might not be looking for entry-level users anymore. I get through everytime I call, so I can't particularly understand why you cannot. oG
Posted: Jan 17, 2008 08:46 AM	Just to clarify for PPC's sake, I did have numerous questions via email. I may not be the type of customer they are best suited for working with. I think a more common proportioner will better suit my needs.
Michael Flander Posted: Jan 18, 2008 12:45 PM	Olger, I can set you up with a relatively inexpensive mechanical counter if you like. Easiest way would probably be spring loaded, just attached the spring to the yoke somewhere and mount the counter, pretty simple. Thanks, Mike Flander
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Jan 19, 2008 10:49 PM	Rotary pumps...? Where would I mount it?
Michael Flander Posted: Jan 21, 2008 10:17 AM	I wasn't reading close enough... didn't realise it was a rotory pump.
Posted: Jan 21, 2008 05:00 PM	i would mount it to the rotary girder, in-line with the interociter. :) -aaron

Author

Comments

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 04, 2007 04:03 PM

Just fired up our new Raider machine on Friday.

Works well. Sprayed some beautiful 3.0 Freedom Foam with it.

Sure is quiet, and the hose heats up quicker than our MH.

Onward,

oG

Posted: Nov 04, 2007 10:46 PM

3.0 freedom foam = 3lb?. im really interested in that proportioner. would you mind posting some more details?

-type of application
-stick pump fed?
-how does it compare to an e-30?
-what advantages does it have over your other proportioners?

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 05, 2007 07:37 AM

Hi ND: Yep, roofing foam.

The Raider is a small portable unit capable of 20-pounds per minute @ 1800 psi. It has 2 15-gallon "day tanks" on it. It can be supplied three ways:

Day tanks
Pump fed
Siphon from drums

It has a three-way valve on both sides to switch between supply options. I am using the day tanks currently to keep it portable (it is on wheels).

In defense of the MH, I only have 100' of hose on the Raider and the MH has 315'. Plus, you can recirc the material internally on the Raider which makes for very rapid warm-up times.

The rotary pumps seem to be very efficient and self equalizing.

All the best,

oG

Posted: Nov 05, 2007 09:12 PM

sounds like a good unit. Did you have to buy their hose? When i e-mailed their rep, he insisted that i use their hose. no reply on why. what gives?

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 06, 2007 05:59 PM

Hi ND.

PPC hose is preferrable to the other hoses we have used, because it is low amperage/high voltage. The other hoses (big G's) are low voltage/high amperage. That tends to "cook" hoses eventually. As I understand it, Gusmer foam hose is the biggest ticket item in their annual sales. Guess why...? Probably repeat sales.

It shouldn't take much to outlast the other hoses. Time will tell -- I only have a week on the Raider so far :).

Regards,

olger

quentin

Posted: Nov 10, 2007 09:32 AM

Since it looks like I am out of work again for a while, mind if I come your way and check out a couple of jobs with you Olger?

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 11, 2007 08:28 AM

We'll see what happens, Quentin. Perhaps you could come to our shop. We are doing mostly spray-on roofing or polyurea this month, trying to finish up.

quentin

Posted: Nov 11, 2007 10:04 PM

Sounds good to me. I figure it is a good chance to use some down time between jobs to get more info and etc on the business. Might be interesting to see some roofing done too since they need that a lot on base and it is my primary target at the moment.

Melvin Chandler

Posted: Nov 12, 2007 07:59 PM

Olger,
Are you just using it as a patch machine? I'm thinking of getting a dedicated 540 machine and a dedicated foam machine. I've got an H20/35Pro and don't know which way to go with it and what to use as the other primary.

Are you spraying any other single component coatings? What type of sprayer are you using?

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 12, 2007 09:13 PM

Small job machine, I'd say.

We have three spray rigs. Be nice to keep them all running, but there is always down time. When work gets slow, you hate to see those trailers sitting out in the parking lot. When you're really busy you're glad you have them.

Single component coatings? Tried a lot of them over the years. There's more acrylic coatings on the market than sand on the beach. Lot of urethanes too. Also tried silicones.

If you have a 20/35, you better get it running. That's a lot of money sitting there :).

Sprayer? We have 3-King pumps, 2-Bulldogs, and one 8900. Three large diesel air compressors for the pumps.

To have two dedicated Pro machines figure on 120k (minimum) to get them outfitted properly.

All the best,

Melvin Chandler

Posted: Nov 20, 2007 08:53 PM

What's the best machine for spraying silicone?

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 20, 2007 10:05 PM

56:1 King

Michael Flander

Posted: Nov 21, 2007 10:50 AM

Olger,

The 20/35's would have to be used also, last I heard they only had 1 or 2 left in stock at GRACO, and the price went higher on them. There are some suppliers out there that still have some left, but the H-25/H-40 use the same pump system with an improved(3 gallon) hydraulic system at a cheaper price.....

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 21, 2007 08:17 PM

Graco made a lot of enemies when they circulated that memo - alienating all those Gusmer machines.

Buddy ******rell & I talked about it in Orlando and agreed that it was a bad deal. Not every contractor can afford to dump a decent machine to buy a new one.

oG

Arville Brown

Posted: Nov 22, 2007 11:19 AM

Jeffrey Souder

Posted: Nov 24, 2007 01:48 PM

Hey Olger,
Have you tried the siphoning from the barrels yet? Just curious as to how well this would work without drum pumps.

Jeff Souder

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Nov 25, 2007 08:03 PM

Hello Jeff.

Heven't tried.

Everything else that Frank told me the machine would do-it does.

olger

Tony Di Bratto

Posted: Dec 21, 2007 12:32 PM

Where can I get details on the Raider machine? Did a search and came up empty.

Thx

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Dec 26, 2007 08:10 PM

Jeff: Tried siphoning. Works good.

TB: Try Polymer Processing Company
http://www.polyproco.com/

Ask for Frank.

Gerry

Posted: Dec 29, 2007 04:05 PM

Olger few questions about the Raider if you dont mind answering them for me.

1)Are you pre warming the A+B to 75-80*F
2)what is the Delta T at full flow?
3) Does the machine have enough heat to maintain the set temps at full flow?
4) Max actual spray temp?
5)Max spray pressure?

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Dec 30, 2007 08:09 PM

Hi Mister:

1) Haven't sprayed in cold enough weather to require drum heaters yet. Also we're using 245fa currently in it. Wouldn't be good to heat that beyond 60°.

2) Delta is 55°

3) When extra heat is needed, I turn the primaries up to maximum (like with polyurea). That gives full strength heat.

4) The pressure is adjustable. Currently spraying at 1100 dynamic.

5) Back to the adjustable feature (they'll walk you through it). I believe 2100 psi is the maximum recommended pressure, due partially to heated hose limits.

I have siphoned with it and it works fine. One thing I miss is a stroke counter. A volumetric flow meter could be added, but it probably wouldn't be worth the cost. The Raider is filling a need for us to have a small inexpensive, nimble machine. The day tanks are nice too.

oG

Thomas Kasper

Posted: Jan 06, 2008 09:50 PM

Hey Og,
So what size are the 3way valves? 3/4 piping? threaded? Is it a small cluster where these valves are? Are you concerned about the iso side valve locking up?

Foam on brother

gota love a little portable machine that can get in kick some but and move on.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Jan 07, 2008 11:20 AM

3/4" ball valves. Not concerned about the evil ISO :).

oG

john kring

Posted: Jan 15, 2008 07:25 PM

Hello, I am from Ontario Canada (ccccold, eh), seriously looking for an entry level foam machine. Is the raider series with the day tanks for me, mostly looking to spray basements 2" for R-12 . how many square ft can it do in an hour. I've called PPC three times now for info, still waiting for the promised call backs. Would appreciate hearing the facts from a guy in the field. Also what percent yield do you get from a barrel set. Thank you for your time John

Posted: Jan 15, 2008 08:22 PM

I also contacted PPC several times with less than desirable response. I felt unsure of what would happen down the road when i had an issue with the machine. I personally know two contractors with an e-30, so if a problem came up i could easily trouble-shoot with them.
I currently use a proprietary setup, and sometimes the limited resources for help have been costly! This wouldnt persuade me to do it again.

Not trying to beat them up, just constructive criticism.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Jan 17, 2008 07:31 AM

I believe that the Raider would work well in Canada. I suspect that PPC might not be looking for entry-level users anymore.

I get through everytime I call, so I can't particularly understand why you cannot.

oG

Posted: Jan 17, 2008 08:46 AM

Just to clarify for PPC's sake, I did have numerous questions via email. I may not be the type of customer they are best suited for working with. I think a more common proportioner will better suit my needs.

Michael Flander

Posted: Jan 18, 2008 12:45 PM

Olger,

I can set you up with a relatively inexpensive mechanical counter if you like. Easiest way would probably be spring loaded, just attached the spring to the yoke somewhere and mount the counter, pretty simple.

Thanks,
Mike Flander

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Jan 19, 2008 10:49 PM

Rotary pumps...? Where would I mount it?

Michael Flander

Posted: Jan 21, 2008 10:17 AM

I wasn't reading close enough... didn't realise it was a rotory pump.

Posted: Jan 21, 2008 05:00 PM

i would mount it to the rotary girder, in-line with the interociter. :)

-aaron

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