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richard sucher II Posted: Mar 11, 2010 11:23 AM	Non fresh air masks Curious to know what masks contractors are using that are charcoal filtered, non fresh air variety. Have not purchased new masks recently but am thinking of getting new ones. Thanks for names of manufacturers, model numbers and reasons why mask is popular.
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Mar 11, 2010 03:43 PM	You may use any organic vapor cartridge mask you like - as long as you are changing the cartridges every 8 hours of use. The question you should be asking when thinking of buying one is... are the cartridges available locally or at a reasonable price. Half masks will be around $12 and full around $120-160, cartridges generally run $10-12 for a 2 pack. North (5400) and 3M (6800) are relatively your best buy, as these models have been around awhile and the cartridges are available at your Grainger and other safety stores.
john thompson Posted: Mar 12, 2010 02:12 PM	If I have to spray without the fresh air I take my adapter off of my 3M 6900 and use the organic vapor cartridges but you do need to change them out quite a bit.
Posted: Mar 13, 2010 07:51 AM	we smear our face with kyjelly to invoke a good seal,,then use a n95 dust mask cause it is cheap,,then put them clear plastic bags that momma got her lettuce in at the store over our head,,,we spin it when it gets covered,,the bags,,not our head!!!then we post our video on utube for the world to see,,, ok,,caddis,,im just poopin,, 3m 6900 with organic vapor carts,, we write our initials and the date opened on the back of the cart,,store in a sealed zip lock when not in use,,if you just hang it on the hook with the carts on it is still filterin hangin there,, robins advise to change out q8hrs of use is good..dont wait till your "huffin" for air,,, so current recomendations is supplied air for anyone with in 25' of the applicatior..(read this as your cleanup man/helper)...has anyone seen any exposure data to support this recomendation,,or is this just the wingtips tappin out the liability chain???
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Mar 16, 2010 08:58 AM	Did you get the warming sensations KY? I need to follow up on the new current regulations with regard to be in the "area" of the sprayfoam application. Did you get updates from OSHA/NIOSH, where?
Posted: Mar 16, 2010 08:27 PM	was presented at the meeting,,, contact rick or kurt or lumary(god luv her) for the recomendations,,, danger will robinson,,danger,,danger!!! big brother is watchin and is comeing!!!! and the current issue of sprayfoammag is full of pix of folks sprayin with organic vapor masks,,,peeps who been doin this for years,,, and the coatingspro mag has a guy on the cover sprayin with a n95 dust mask,,title is ib coatings,,,consistency and reality is what i luv about this industry,, when the going gets tough,,bend over and kiss booty...."we dont have the money",,,(if we put it in writing and make it a mandate,,we are out of the liability chain,,and can still charge 3x what the raw material is worth,,)rofl,i think,,,it think i am gonna go back to lawncare..
Rocks Rivers Posted: Mar 17, 2010 11:20 AM	OK, the test data presented at the conference was limited - VERY LIMITED!!!It was only based on a sampling of 5 jobs and none of them had any ventilation provided. In addition to this the helper was also switching with the sprayer so the data was skewed. This isn't just for outside air supply respirators, it's also for the changing every 8 hours for the cartridges whene they aren't known to be bad! So, at this meeting the question was asked, "How do you know that cartridges are exposed or completely used at the end of an 8 hour shift?" and they answered that "You don't but would you want to play russian rolette?". SO how is this playing russian rollete when you're providing ventilation and canisters, and prefilters? So, what about half masks? Well, I wouldn't because you still leave skin exposed and your eyes are eposured too!! Can we say Halo? I would much rather have the mobility of a non tethered mask than a tethered mask which may stop for some reason or another an then I get a facefull of the nasty stuff.
thomas malloy Posted: Jul 30, 2010 06:29 AM	Fresh air is the only means of protection from iso vapors. if you guys are using cartridge filters you are not protecting yourself. no manufacturer has a cartridge that will protect you against iso vapors.as far as i know if there is i would love to know.
Posted: Jul 30, 2010 07:22 AM	whatever... http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/mdi/mdi.html lots of big words....read em...
Bryan Kwater Posted: Jul 30, 2010 02:00 PM	Here's a flyer from 3M. http://www.henry.com/fileadmin/pdf/SprayFoamFlyerFINAL.pdf
SPFer Posted: Aug 06, 2010 05:59 PM	dude, Why are you throwing me under the bus in your post? What did I do?
Posted: Aug 06, 2010 07:21 PM	caddis..wtf???i dont see a post from you on this thread..unless you maintain an alter-ego... and what i posted is fact... from peeps much larger than us.. and then we have the 3m document posted by mifoamer.. great information...and facts,,,just the facts.. not mis-information from those trying to beat the liability chain...the "you've been told" position... and besides,,i cant drive a bus,,,i spray with an e-20...lol
mason Posted: Aug 07, 2010 02:36 PM	While with the trade association I coordinated a lot of the air montoring projects and worked with OSHA on the air purifying, vs air supplied respirator issues. OSHA allows air purifying respirators for outside sprayfoam application with a regular change out schedule. The conservative change out schedule is every 8 hours. The SPF industry recommends to use air supplied respirators for indoor work. But, if if the interior space is huge or has exceptional good ventilation then air purifying respirators would probably be fine. ONly problem, you would have to provide OSHA with monitoring data showing that the application was OK for air Purifying respirators. The rule of thumb for air purifying respirators is no more than 10 times the PEL of MDI vapors in the application area. Above that use an air supplied respirator. Also, rememember that you need a written respirator program. You can download one from the polyurethane.org website and fill out the pertinent areas specific to your applications.
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Aug 10, 2010 07:02 AM	Air monitoring - where's the testing showing that it is needed? Was it conducted with or without ventiltaion? How much ventilation? Was it cross ventilation? Forced ventilation? How big was the space? How much air flow was necessary? My understanding is there were a number of studies done (6-8 to be exact) which had no ventilation into the spraying areas. Also the NIOSH guy presenting it even stated the data was somewhat compromised with sprayers and trimmers doing the spraying job without distinction within the test results. As a quality engineer, I know 6-8 tests is an inadequate test sample even if all of the other controls are monitored correctly. You should have a test sample of 25-30 to verify that the test is adequate and you are testing it correctly. Another note is - what is the PEL of ISO or MDI? As far as I know, they haven't come up with one! And when they do, I will question the method sof determining it because they've shown that I can't trust them with establishing my safety in my profession! Besides al of that, you've only based your statement on a "rule of thumb". Lats I knew these don't hold up in court and and just general rules which sometimes don't make any sense!

Author

Comments

richard sucher II

Posted: Mar 11, 2010 11:23 AM

Non fresh air masks

Curious to know what masks contractors are using that are charcoal filtered, non fresh air variety. Have not purchased new masks recently but am thinking of getting new ones. Thanks for names of manufacturers, model numbers and reasons why mask is popular.

SPRAYFOAM GODDESS

Posted: Mar 11, 2010 03:43 PM

You may use any organic vapor cartridge mask you like - as long as you are changing the cartridges every 8 hours of use. The question you should be asking when thinking of buying one is... are the cartridges available locally or at a reasonable price. Half masks will be around $12 and full around $120-160, cartridges generally run $10-12 for a 2 pack. North (5400) and 3M (6800) are relatively your best buy, as these models have been around awhile and the cartridges are available at your Grainger and other safety stores.

john thompson

Posted: Mar 12, 2010 02:12 PM

If I have to spray without the fresh air I take my adapter off of my 3M 6900 and use the organic vapor cartridges but you do need to change them out quite a bit.

Posted: Mar 13, 2010 07:51 AM

we smear our face with kyjelly to invoke a good seal,,then use a n95 dust mask cause it is cheap,,then put them clear plastic bags that momma got her lettuce in at the store over our head,,,we spin it when it gets covered,,the bags,,not our head!!!then we post our video on utube for the world to see,,,
ok,,caddis,,im just poopin,,
3m 6900 with organic vapor carts,,
we write our initials and the date opened on the back of the cart,,store in a sealed zip lock when not in use,,if you just hang it on the hook with the carts on it is still filterin hangin there,,
robins advise to change out q8hrs of use is good..dont wait till your "huffin" for air,,,

so current recomendations is supplied air for anyone with in 25' of the applicatior..(read this as your cleanup man/helper)...has anyone seen any exposure data to support this recomendation,,or is this just the wingtips tappin out the liability chain???

SPRAYFOAM GODDESS

Posted: Mar 16, 2010 08:58 AM

Did you get the warming sensations KY? I need to follow up on the new current regulations with regard to be in the "area" of the sprayfoam application.

Did you get updates from OSHA/NIOSH, where?

Posted: Mar 16, 2010 08:27 PM

was presented at the meeting,,,
contact rick or kurt or lumary(god luv her) for the recomendations,,,
danger will robinson,,danger,,danger!!!
big brother is watchin and is comeing!!!!

and the current issue of sprayfoammag is full of pix of folks sprayin with organic vapor masks,,,peeps who been doin this for years,,,
and the coatingspro mag has a guy on the cover sprayin with a n95 dust mask,,title is ib coatings,,,consistency and reality is what i luv about this industry,,

when the going gets tough,,bend over and kiss booty...."we dont have the money",,,(if we put it in writing and make it a mandate,,we are out of the liability chain,,and can still charge 3x what the raw material is worth,,)rofl,i think,,,it think i am gonna go back to lawncare..

Rocks Rivers

Posted: Mar 17, 2010 11:20 AM

OK, the test data presented at the conference was limited - VERY LIMITED!!!It was only based on a sampling of 5 jobs and none of them had any ventilation provided. In addition to this the helper was also switching with the sprayer so the data was skewed. This isn't just for outside air supply respirators, it's also for the changing every 8 hours for the cartridges whene they aren't known to be bad! So, at this meeting the question was asked, "How do you know that cartridges are exposed or completely used at the end of an 8 hour shift?" and they answered that "You don't but would you want to play russian rolette?". SO how is this playing russian rollete when you're providing ventilation and canisters, and prefilters?

So, what about half masks? Well, I wouldn't because you still leave skin exposed and your eyes are eposured too!! Can we say Halo?

I would much rather have the mobility of a non tethered mask than a tethered mask which may stop for some reason or another an then I get a facefull of the nasty stuff.

thomas malloy

Posted: Jul 30, 2010 06:29 AM

Fresh air is the only means of protection from iso vapors. if you guys are using cartridge filters you are not protecting yourself. no manufacturer has a cartridge that will protect you against iso vapors.as far as i know if there is i would love to know.

Posted: Jul 30, 2010 07:22 AM

whatever...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates/mdi/mdi.html
lots of big words....read em...

Bryan Kwater

Posted: Jul 30, 2010 02:00 PM

Here's a flyer from 3M.

http://www.henry.com/fileadmin/pdf/SprayFoamFlyerFINAL.pdf

SPFer

Posted: Aug 06, 2010 05:59 PM

dude,

Why are you throwing me under the bus in your post? What did I do?

Posted: Aug 06, 2010 07:21 PM

caddis..wtf???i dont see a post from you on this thread..unless you maintain an alter-ego...
and what i posted is fact...
from peeps much larger than us..
and then we have the 3m document posted by mifoamer..
great information...and facts,,,just the facts..
not mis-information from those trying to beat the
liability chain...the "you've been told" position...
and besides,,i cant drive a bus,,,i spray with an e-20...lol

mason

Posted: Aug 07, 2010 02:36 PM

While with the trade association I coordinated a lot of the air montoring projects and worked with OSHA on the air purifying, vs air supplied respirator issues.

OSHA allows air purifying respirators for outside sprayfoam application with a regular change out schedule. The conservative change out schedule is every 8 hours. The SPF industry recommends to use air supplied respirators for indoor work.

But, if if the interior space is huge or has exceptional good ventilation then air purifying respirators would probably be fine. ONly problem, you would have to provide OSHA with monitoring data showing that the application was OK for air Purifying respirators.

The rule of thumb for air purifying respirators is no more than 10 times the PEL of MDI vapors in the application area. Above that use an air supplied respirator.

Also, rememember that you need a written respirator program. You can download one from the polyurethane.org website and fill out the pertinent areas specific to your applications.

jimcoler

I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs.

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Aug 10, 2010 07:02 AM

Air monitoring - where's the testing showing that it is needed? Was it conducted with or without ventiltaion? How much ventilation? Was it cross ventilation? Forced ventilation? How big was the space? How much air flow was necessary?

My understanding is there were a number of studies done (6-8 to be exact) which had no ventilation into the spraying areas. Also the NIOSH guy presenting it even stated the data was somewhat compromised with sprayers and trimmers doing the spraying job without distinction within the test results. As a quality engineer, I know 6-8 tests is an inadequate test sample even if all of the other controls are monitored correctly. You should have a test sample of 25-30 to verify that the test is adequate and you are testing it correctly.

Another note is - what is the PEL of ISO or MDI? As far as I know, they haven't come up with one! And when they do, I will question the method sof determining it because they've shown that I can't trust them with establishing my safety in my profession!

Besides al of that, you've only based your statement on a "rule of thumb". Lats I knew these don't hold up in court and and just general rules which sometimes don't make any sense!

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