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Melvin Chandler Posted: Dec 04, 2006 09:48 PM	Probler 2 stud wall tip I've gone thru a mess to try an get a .5# stud wall tip to spray the stud walls in one pass. I finally got a tip from Glascraft that nobody could find because the part number isn't widely available but the thing doesn't spray the entire cavity. It is actually made to use on a 24" wide cavity but won't even spray a 16". Does anyone out there have a tip for the P2 that will work or do you have any recommendations on how to make mine work?
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 04, 2006 10:54 PM	I use glascraft part # 23987-00 I have 2 in stock. George
Melvin Chandler Posted: Dec 05, 2006 05:44 PM	George, What foam (brand and type) are you spraying? What chemical temp and ambient temp? What pressure? Are you spraying with a P2? I am told that the 23987-00 is a gelcoat tip. This comes from an old Glascraft rep. That tip doesn't spray worth a lick for me. I tried for a month to get the tip that the old rep said was designed just to spray .5# with the P2. You'll have a hard time finding this part because none of the dealers have this number in their system and most of the people at Glascraft who take orders from the dealers don't have it either. I had to have a dealer bypass lots of sales folks to get to the part. It is a 23987-24 which is supposed to be for spraying a 24" wide wall. They also have a -16 for a 16" wide wall cavity but I can't imagine it working since my -24 doesn't spray to both of the studs. I'm spraying at 1200psi and wondering if I need to increase the pressure to increase the width of the pattern. I'm spraying Sealection. I also noticed the video link you provided on another post that you spray multiple passes over the foam before it rises. The product I'm using doesn't recommend that due to yield issues. They promote one pass straight up the wall. I'd love to be able to do that but it just isn't working. We are spraying two passes (one left and one right) and sometimes doing a flash coat right down the middle. We are also spraying left and right in a painting pattern which seems to work but it would be much more productive if we could get the right tip or technique for the one pass method. By the way, would you like to purchase my 23987-00? I'll sell it to you for half price : )
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 05, 2006 08:49 PM	That video was shot with "R"tite 50, .5lb. It was in August, so I'm guessing that the ambient temp was 70-80 and the substrate was at least 60. Pressure was 1200psi. Preheaters and hose were at 115. That is how I was able to make so many passes. If your studwall tip isn't making it to both sides of the studs, then why don't you back up? How far away is the gun from the substrate when you are spraying? If you increase your pressure, the width of the pattern will not increase unless you back up. I prefer spraying the .5lb with a 00 or 01 round depending if I am shooting walls or ceiling. I like to spray a 4' section of wall or ceiling moving the gun parallel to the studs/joists. I start at the left bottom for example, go up 4' move over maybe 3" go down, over 3" up, over 3" down, until I am done. This way, the foam rises out all together. If you spray up one side, wait and down the other, wait and a pass up the middle, there tend to be alot of voids. Next time I spray some .5lb, I'll try and take some more video. Where are you located anyway? George
Melvin Chandler Posted: Dec 06, 2006 07:51 AM	I'm in KY. Backing up didn't seem to help. The distributor mentioned staying 36 inches back from the wall but we get a lot of overspray and have to go really slow up the wall. It's going to take some work or maybe another gun to get the method down. The round tip works good if we spray a military (left, right, left, right) pattern up the wall. We could spray the same with an up/down like you are talking about but our guys like the left/right.
Posted: Dec 06, 2006 06:13 PM	newby, have a look at www.insulright.com video they use a round tip and spray the foam in a circular motion which looks affective. cheers.
Posted: Dec 08, 2006 08:45 AM	We are also spraying Sealection, and having a bit of trouble with the P2. We are useing a 00 round, and it seems as though we have a hard time keeping the sides from pulling and also a lot of cut off. Can you guys tell me what type of pressures and temps your running. We vary between A & B as high as 135 and the hose down to 115. We have been all over the place. Would love to hear what others start up procedures are. Also what type of yields are you getting. Any better way to cut off
Melvin Chandler Posted: Dec 08, 2006 03:03 PM	I'm setting my hydraulic pressure at 1200psi. I think the book or TDS says 900psi but they say to scratch thru that and go between 1200 & 1300. Air to my drum pumps is around 110psi. Temps range from 130-145 but we are usually at 135 without much trouble and that is when ambient is 30-60f which is all that we've sprayed in so far. You only have a window of about 5deg to work with. Book/TDS says 120 but they also said to go between 130 & 140 suggesting that you start at 140 and work down. Start up is just recircing until the chemicals in the drums reach 90f. I don't wait until the entire drum gets to 90f (per my rep but I'm not so sure that is recommended). If most is >70f and some is over 90, I'll crank up the machine and do a few test buns. I've seen some, what appears to be, shrinkage that happens a day or so later. Just that first spot at the face of the stud is shrinking anywhere from .25-.5 but nothing more. We are getting some pretty good production and could crank up another set in a day but I don't want to waste an hour of down time recircing in the middle of the day. I've either got to find a way to prep a set while I'm spraying another or get a different game plan.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 08, 2006 08:19 PM	JP, if the foam is pulling a little, the substrate could be a little cold or wet. Spraying in the winter is a different ball game. I have a couple of 200,000 BTU heaters to get started in the AM. I wait for a minimum of 40 degree substrate temp. If you start with a 20 degree substrate and turn on the heat, the substrate has a little frost/moisture on it. Even though you warm it up a little, the moisture takes a little while to disapate. This definately is the cause of some pullaway, not the P2 gun. I prefer to spray .5lb at 135 in the winter, 110-120 in the summer, 1200PSI. I am not spraying the same foam as you guys, but I think .5lb foam is .5lb foam. Yield is so hard to calculate with the .5lb. I always figure 15,000bd ft per set, but I am sure that I get at least 17,000. You need to recirculate and warm the drums because most of the proportioners are only capable of raising the temp of the materials 50 degrees (delta T). If the drums are only 50 degrees, and the delta T is 50, then your max spraying temp is only 100 regardless of what your machine is set at. Newby, I use a pair of drum warmers to have the next set ready. I also leave the same drum warmers pluged in all night, that way I don't need to recirc in the morning; they keep the drums between 80 and 90. George
Melvin Chandler Posted: Dec 08, 2006 09:40 PM	George, Funny you should mention drum warmers, this subject (or the way my rep handled my questions) has pretty much turned me off of their product. I asked what type they would recommend. HE said none because it would cause damage to the internal drum lining and alter the chemicals. He said to keep the ambient temp up to 80 in my trailer or storage area and I asked what the difference between keeping the ambient temps at 80 and keeping the drums at 80 with a drum heater. He blew a lid because he felt like I just didn't believe him and said he no longer had time to help me. I just wanted a reasonable explanation of why the ambient temp wouldn't do the same thing. I just wanted to keep the drums around 60 to 70 on nights when the outside temps were too low for the trailer heat alone to keep the chemicals above the recommended storage temp. It's a darn shame we can't choose our reps but at least have an option with brands.
Posted: Dec 09, 2006 06:47 AM	Newby, Email me directly, jpgick@ffni.com When I went to training last year and they told us not to use drum heaters, when we broke for break, a sprayer who has been in the bis for several years, told me go buy some heaters. I went half the winter with out, my advice go buy some heaters. We have not seen any problems with useing them. Your yeild will go up, Just try and get ones with thermostats on them. Mine don't. We have overheated the product when it gets low.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 09, 2006 07:40 AM	Newby, I don't have any first hand experience with your brand, but I have no issue using the drum warmers. The ones that I use cost $75 and they are a battery warmer for a large battery. They will not over heat the drum. They are slow, I just leave them on all of the time. I do have some experience with big companies and their sometimes arrogant reps. If your rep doesn't have time for you, get a new rep, or a new foam. The problem with most of these reps, in my humble opinion, is that they have lots of sales experience, but have never spent a day spraying foam. The only thing that they want to take time for is talking about how great the product is, and taking your next order. DO NOT USE DRUM WARMERS ON ANY FOAM THAT USES 245fa AS THE BLOWING AGENT George
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 09, 2006 09:34 PM	If your 'rep' treats you this way over a simple question, then it's time for a change. Or is there more to the story? BTW, drum heaters work very well. Try Brisk Heat. All the best, olger
Melvin Chandler Posted: Dec 10, 2006 01:29 PM	This story is a novel that just keeps going. It's my understanding that several others reading from the same covers. I am new to the industry. Just pulled the trigger for the first time in September. I've told everyone that I'm dealing with that it will be baby steps and lots of questions and even questions about the questions. I don't always take someones word for it. I want to know details and the whys and why nots. I'm also the type of person who will treat someone the way I like to be treated. Some people evidently don't work that way and in sales, that's not a good thing.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 10, 2006 02:31 PM	Olger, Do you use the drum heaters on the B side of the 245 foam? George
John Shockney Posted: Dec 10, 2006 04:31 PM	Hi Newby, I met Chuck last summer though I couldn't get past the fact that his foam was $400 more per set and he couldn't sell me more than one set without paying for school first. He is kind of a know it all, but I get some good info out of him (without paying). And he did tell me that you could spray a stud cavity in one pass with a fan spray tip, but I haven't been able to do it!! Chuck also told me about the wall forming system that I now use, without the $5000 alum. wall forms. I spent $50 on wood and plastic latis to make my own. I'd switch suppliers you can e-mail me directly and I'll give you my rep's phone # and e-mail adress. airpro@myvine.com Thanks for all the info, I'm happy with the suppliers I'm using. Thanks again everyone John
Lane Hogstad Posted: Dec 10, 2006 04:41 PM	George Stupid question but how do you warm your 245's or just use another product. Thanks LLH
Brian Mulder Posted: Dec 10, 2006 09:57 PM	Which drum heater do you use from brisk heat? I have been keeping my trailer around 65 to 70 with a small oil filled radiator and spraying at 125. I am new to the foam biz and going into winter here in the Catskill Mtns of NY. Should I keep the trailer warmer? Does anyone in cold climates insulate the hose by wrapping the hole bundle scuff jacket and all with something else to keep the lines warmer? I am spraying closed cell from NAP. Doesn't the B side boil off at higher temps? George what kind of 200K btu heaters are you using...kerosene? Don't you get moisture just from using those? DO you run the heaters while spraying? I also see that some use dissicant on both the A and B side. I only have one in the A and just leave the small bung off to vent during spraying on the B side. Of course closing the B side up tight when I am done. On the A side I just leave the barrell pump in and the moisture filter hooked into the small bung. Is this how others do it.
Posted: Dec 11, 2006 12:03 AM	i use a band heater on my drums,,, .5 and 1.9...resin and iso use it to keep the material warm,,,not cooked... i turn mine off when the drum is 1/3 from empty and transfer them to my next drum set,,,i turn it up on this full drum for the first 1/2 drum or so and start to back it down...i have the band "warm to touch" when my inlet temp shows 80 degrees or better... i do not like to over heat iso for safety reasons...but i need 70 degree inlet at the proportioner to adequately process the material out at the gun... there are low watt band heaters as well as high watt band heaters,,,and,,,the cheap ones did not hold up in my rough environment job trailer...the clasps that connect them just dont hold up..you get what you pay for here,,or you spend the time to mod it if you gots the time.. a little higher pressure at start up will help with the impingement of the materials when it gets that "cold material lag" at startup..work pressure down as temps stabilize and according to your foam profile and pattern...
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Dec 11, 2006 06:55 PM	`lo Dude. Sounds good. Hi George. We use drum heaters minimally, because our trailer is well insulated, well heated, and our MH has a 110° ?T. But on those rare 2-degree mornings, we use the drum heaters (on 245 foam). On water-blown foam, we can use drum heaters liberally, but don't normally need to for the aforementioned reasons. All the best, olger
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Dec 12, 2006 06:44 AM	Ultrawide, I only spray water blown foam. Gotfoam, I use the kerosene heaters. No moisture issues from them, unlike propane. I do run the heaters while spraying, but not too close to the sprayer. Again, I only spray waterblown, you'll have to ask others about 245's. I have recirculation lines hooked from the front of my proportioner into the 3/4" bung. George
Posted: Dec 12, 2006 07:36 PM	What temperature do most of you in cold climates keep your trailers/rigs heated to at night?
dennis ballew Posted: Dec 12, 2006 09:09 PM	I gave up on 1 pass chamber long time ago. I've tried barrleheater did'nt last long. Ikeep my trailer at about 60 deg. I have diaphram transfer pumps,so I just bought a plain ol' heating pad,wraped it around both hoses just before they go into the proportioner. This works so well- I should have patented it and sold it for $175. The best $20 bucks I've spent since I bought this rig 3.5 yrs ago. I had my tr. get down to 30 deg once ,no problems. When hose temp was up i started spraying.
Melvin Chandler Posted: Dec 12, 2006 09:41 PM	I'm usually >60f. The TDS on my .5# says above 59f. The rep may say you're okay if you stay above 45 or he may say "what does the book say?" My guess would be that whatever the TDS says, it includes a decent amount of fluff. Stay as close to that as possible.
Lane Hogstad Posted: Dec 12, 2006 11:57 PM	Thanks George LLH