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RE: foam trimming equipment Post New Topic | Post Reply

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Jonathan Peyton Posted: Jan 11, 2006 12:49 PM	RE: foam trimming equipment Looking for a better way to trim foam. Currently we use the standard IR dual-piston straight-line air sander with about a 2' blade. We are going through these sanders like crazy - I believe they have an aluminum block for the pistons and after a bit of use they heat up and start bogging down. If anyone knows of a better setup, please let me know. We spray Sealection500.
Timothy Sonney Posted: Jan 13, 2006 12:03 AM	I have seen many people use many different cutters/shapers on finishing the foam. Everything from a $6 farmers hand saw to the $1500 air powered foam shaper. They both work, don’t get me wrong. The best that I have seen is a reciprocating saw with a GOOD long blade – it is quick on cutting, small on dust and if you buy a good quality saw it comes with a good warranty. One that you may be able to take advantage of. But if you have any experience in electric motors, and you saw fails – they are easy to take apart, clean, and put back together. The big dollar air driven foam shapers do a quick job of surfacing the foam, but create a lot of residue. Residue being dust. These come in handy with very large jobs with multiple guns spraying foam at the same time. These are also are a efficient tool in the right application. I myself wouldn’t suggest one on a residential home. I would take advantage of the reciprocating saw in this environment. If you were doing an air plane hanger and have 2+ guns spraying at the same time, then yes apply the big dollar shaper. You will see it in your profit – this would come from labor hours. Back to the reciprocating saw – they have been a tried and tested tool. If you are banking on their everyday reliability, buy a back up or two. Plane and simple. A general contractor will buy one simply on their tool efficiency – getting in tight spots, making a hard cut, etc. Us on the other hand are using them to work for thousands of board feet in a material that creates small dust particles. These particles get into every bit of the tool, and when the tool finally dies – take it in for warranty repair/replacement – and pull out the backup – now your crew isn’t coming back to finish a job because of a $200 or $300 tool failure. The other nice thing about this saw is that clean up is easily manageable, and the duct can be cleaned up by a small hand carried shop vac. The goal is – in and out in a day, make money and move on The right tool makes the job easier, but don’t leave the job site a mess. This leave all of us a bad name. Our product, as we all know is more expensive than the others that are available – in my eyes, leave the job site respectable. Just leave the foam in the wall, no clean up for the GC or his/her crew and you will see residual call backs for more of your product – FOAM.
Posted: Feb 01, 2006 03:28 PM	Do you feel that the reciprocating saw is better than the flat sander saw for cutting open cell insulation? Also, you mentioned about getting good saw blades, where do you get those? Do you use pneumatic recip saws or electric? If pneumatic, what size compressor do those need? Also-we use the flat line sanders from Harbor Freight Tool, got them on sale for $29 and the warranty is $6. They will replace them if they go bad.
Jonathan Peyton Posted: Feb 13, 2006 12:24 PM	GZ - we have been using various versions of that same pneumatic straight-line sander that HF sells. Ours keep bogging down - we have about (6) different sanders we cycle through. What kinds of blades are you guys using? We get our blades from Demilec - they are about 36" long and 1" wide. Are you replacing your blades frequently? Sometimes even when we start out with a fresh blade we have problems with the unit bogging down.
Jonathan Peyton Posted: Feb 13, 2006 12:27 PM	BHI - can you get me the specifics on the electric reciprocating saw you are using? Also - what types of blades are you fitting in that?
Timothy Sonney Posted: Feb 14, 2006 01:00 AM	OK here is what we did. We invested in 2 top of the line Dewalt reciprocating saws (VARIABLE SPEED - ITS 1/2lb foam not a 15lb ham) and aquired a couple sets of hand saws from http://www.macsimum.com/products.asp?filter=N they call them SNN KleanKut. We then faboricated our own rig/jig to hold the blade in the saw. Our first attempted looked like it was gonna work good, but it broke, so back to the drawing board we went. We adapted our first design with some modifications and came up with a new rig/jig. This was proved us good, for a while that is and it also broke. So back to the drawing board we went, but this time with a engineer friend. Finally we came up with one that seems to work the best for us. We also love that the blades can be resharpened when needed by your local sharpening shop. Oh btw these guys are full of information. Throw them a few questions and see the reponce you get. We have always gotten the best information from the guys with the most gray hair, if ya know what i mean. You will find that the going rate on the blades i directed you to are about 75 bones for a set of 3. get yourself 2 sets, one to experiment with building your own jig, and one to have for on the job. GZ - I see that you have invested $35 into each sander and cycle through 6 of them - $210 invested. With this investment you are experiencing bog down, have to have an employee stop working, walk to the truck, get another sander, maybe have a smoke, make a phone call to his/her buddies on what they are doing after work, walk back to the job, get him/her self resituated, and begin working again. This to me is DOWN TIME. Down time cost you money. When I used to drive tractor trailer, I timed my self on how long it would take me to pull off the highway, park, take a piss, get back in the truck, and regain 60 MPH. On average from 60 to 0 to 60 again was about 30 minutes. 30 minutes to take a piss, at 60 MPH thats 30 miles that i could have been paid for already. I personally feal sketchy about taking my family car to a mechanic with a garage full of KMart tools compared to the mechanic that Snap-On or Matco tools filling his drawers. I think it is great that we have a place to discuss different issues/problems/idea's/etc. It would be nice if we could upload pictures to our discussions so others can see online as we are all busy people. I will post this as a new topic for SprayFoamMagazine.com and the more reply's we get, may prove my mom's old saying.... squeeky wheel gets the grease. So guys, check it out and post your responce.
Posted: Feb 14, 2006 11:07 PM	The thing with those inline sanders is you have to keep them oiled. Pull off the hose and put pneumatic oil in there, it helps them from bogging up. I think that recip saw idea is interesting. I actually saw a foam company on "This Old House" using a saw like that. I didn't pay attention if it was electric or pneumatic, which one do you use?
Jonathan Peyton Posted: Feb 21, 2006 07:22 AM	It appears we have solved our problem! We purchased the Hutchins Hustler 2000 straight-line pneumatic sander. http://www.hutchinsmfg.com/ I HIGHLY recommend this air sander - it has a totally different design than the straight-line sanders you can purchase @ Harbor Freight or Ingersoll Rand (p.s. – for those of you spending $100-180 for the IR, the one HF sells for $29 is the SAME thing). The Hutchins is easier to handle and has a much easier trigger mechanism. Because of the unique design it DOES NOT bog down - no matter what! Our 36" blades with a 12 7/8" hole offset bolted straight onto the unit. I had the opportunity to speak with Al Hutchins, the owner of the manufacturing company and original designer, he was extremely nice and spent about 30 minutes explaining the superior & proven design characteristics of their sander. Rest assured I will be contacting him to let him know how awesome this sander is – every foam contractor should have one of these in their rig! If anyone else needs to purchase one, I would suggest getting them from wwww.slaetechs.com - they have them for $215. Ron is the owner of the company and they are very easy to deal with - we ordered ours overnight and had it the next a.m. @ 9:30. Here is their additional contact information: PO Box 568 Andrews, IN 46702-0568 Phone/Fax: 260-786-3562
Posted: Feb 25, 2006 10:51 PM	some thought should be given to the air supply to run these "air hogs"...also thought should be give to the "quality of the air".. ie: amount of moisture...as well as to the amount of "line drop" by stringing together airlines. supply: so if you have a good 7.5 hp compressor you may have about 25 cfm free air. add up all the air consumption devices being ran at one time to see if you have adequate air supply...lets see,,,xfer pump x 2, gun purge and gun trigger,sometimes a stirrer, trimming saw,,arrgh,,,it is easy to see that we can be demanding quite a bit of air....of equal consideration is the reserve tank,,,80 gallon or 120 gallon maybe if you got the room...the compressor is gonna work its tail off to keep up with just an 80 gallon tank, and when the compressor is workin it is makeing hot air,,,and what happens when hot meet cold? CONDENSATION (whole nuther topic me thinks)so now we are supplying moisture laden air to the air motors. oil the motors regularly when operating them continous duty. think about more air tanks for higher reserve..higher reserve means the compressor cycles less (and in my trailer,,less heat). i run a 52 cfm air dryer after the reciever to help with moisture. but if i run 3 or 4 hose sections from the rig to the structure there could be enough change in temp over the run to promote moisture condensate in the lines and thus the saws air motor...we use a quality air oil q 4-6hrs. saw the gusmer tip tech dude said to give your air motors a pump of white lithium grease instead of oil. have tried this a few times and it seems to work well. You may want to consider another 7.5 hp compressor to run the peripherals and one to run the processing equipment. less cycleing equals longer life and increased performanc.e. i too use a converted sander with the long blades for open cell foam .
Trey Gibson Posted: Mar 07, 2006 08:09 AM	Just got the Hutchins model 2000, hopefully it works better than the IR model that lasted about 2 days. The thing sure does look and feel heavy duty.
Posted: Apr 01, 2006 10:21 PM	I dont know about open cell foam but I have made a cutter that works great on closed cell I took a 6" skill saw blade bent the teeth at 45 degrees and mounted it backwards on a 6" air grinder Its kind of a air hog but it takes excess foam of the studs with ease
Posted: Feb 07, 2007 04:20 PM	jPeyton, Where did you get the blades from for the Hutchins 2000 saw? Thanks Tim
Melvin Chandler Posted: Feb 08, 2007 08:36 PM	I'm betting the blades came from Demilec. They have a pretty good deal on the blades (set of 3). Our Hutchins works great but the blades do dull. One thing we are considering is grinding down the teeth and making the blade razor sharp to cut down on the dust while Zipping right down the foam. We have heard from several guys that this works great.
Bryan Rouska Posted: Sep 02, 2007 01:37 PM	I need some advice on the best way to trim 2 lb foam on a full cavity fill thanks for any advice
Posted: Sep 03, 2007 07:24 AM	this thread is full of dialoge on trimming and trimming devices,,take some time to read, process, and implement.... there are other threads on this forum with similar topics and good advice... check em out....(thanx sprayfoammagazine.com!!) best way #1: mechanical device,,,i use the quick plane by all phase construction..this air hog is tough as a marine and does a great job on the wall cavity's... we trim studs by hand useing a 2 1/2" scrapper...and lots of arm strong,,this helps the quick plane process proceed easier as the thing weighs a ton and you dont want to spend all day fighting it bouncing around. best way #2: hand saws and scrapers and lots of time and energy and a greater risk of leaving high spots which really make the general and drywallers happy..
philip mullins Posted: Sep 03, 2007 04:19 PM	another idea i stole... at BHI's website they have a video clip from an episode of this old house. in the clip i noticed that the foamer was applying vasoline to the face of the studs. a little more prep time but, it works for me. i use one of those foam edging paint brushes from home depot to apply the goop. i buy the realy big jars of vasoline from sams. i just smile and tell the clerk in my sweetest voice that i run a bath house.
Posted: Sep 03, 2007 09:20 PM	foamdude, could you give us a website /phone #/ or address for all phase contruction and the quick plane? thanks.
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Sep 03, 2007 09:38 PM	http://quickplane.com/ It's about $2000!! Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Posted: Sep 03, 2007 10:35 PM	i am still useing the one i purchased in 1998,,it has been rechained a time or three... it has been rebladed x1... i own 2....cause when the old girl goes i wont be without one,,not even for a moment...time is money... ....this aint no party,,this aint no disco,,,this aint no foolin around...
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Sep 03, 2007 11:11 PM	foamdude, What kind of a mess does this quick plane make? I have seen a similar device in action but the blade design was different. Looked like several small circular saw blades instead of a spiral blade. The one I saw made a huge mess and a lot of airborne pieces etc. Can you trim the cavities without first trimming the faces of the studs? I mostly work alone so doing things twice may not save me time (trim the studs first then the cavities). Thanks, Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Greg Pruitt Posted: Sep 05, 2007 10:37 AM	I purchased wire pneumatic shaver from Thermo dynamick Isulation 806-892-3993, price is $1350.00. This is probably the best investment I have made in this business. It works by a large wire brush. Does anyone make an electric one? I hate the knives.
Greg Pruitt Posted: Sep 05, 2007 10:37 AM	I purchased wire pneumatic shaver from Thermo dynamick Isulation 806-892-3993, price is $1350.00. This is probably the best investment I have made in this business. It works by a large wire brush. Does anyone make an electric one? I hate the knives.
Posted: Sep 05, 2007 06:46 PM	the quick plane makes a boatload of chips that are about 1/2" or so... you learn real quick to become a good gun-monkey and keep from going full fill...in fact,,we try to leave the skin on when ever possible..particularly with open cell...nuther topic me thinks... you can "nurse it" over the studs but it will bite em...we scrape the studs by hand with a 2 1/2" scraper and this gives a flush surface for the guides of the quickplane to follow so it makes the planeing process easier/faster/more efficient... what does the wire bladed scarfers give for debris...?? is it chips or powder.?? i can only imagine a powder on closed cell and this would seem to be unacceptable (at least to me)
Bryan Rouska Posted: Sep 13, 2007 10:27 PM	Hey thanks for the advise I bought a guickplane 24 special and that thing kicks some serious foam best 2 grand I ever spent thanks again
Posted: Oct 04, 2007 09:56 PM	quickplane 16" is a the best possible tool i can imagine for 1.9lb closed cell! i was impressed. rented it from all phase construction for $50.00 a day.(charge card action) DHL express air. had it in one day! had a full basement of 2" wall application. 2x4's and 2x2's. knocked out the 2x2 part quickly. quick plane is super well built. i will buy one by the end of the year. very, very well built piece of equipment!
Dave Strnad Posted: Oct 05, 2007 11:47 AM	Ok what size to get? If doing both 16" oc and 24" oc which would be better the 24 or 16?
Greg Pruitt Posted: Oct 06, 2007 08:20 AM	There is no better trimmer than the one from Termodynamics. 806-892-3993. It is messy, but does a wonderful job with little maintenance. I have two different knifes, and hate them both. This shaver really works,...but you payfor it.