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soy based Post New Topic | Post Reply
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Grady Littlehale
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 03:15 PM
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soy based
Anyone spraying any closed cell soy based foam? Any issues with it? Got a customer who wants it.Thanks |
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Ryan Fesmire
Posted: Jul 16, 2008 07:56 PM
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I have never sprayed any but I do know that a bio based insulation contractor is being accused of burning down a 2 million doolar house in Nashville. It just happened yesterday so there are not many details right now. |
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Posted: Jul 16, 2008 09:59 PM
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..the sky is falling... the sky is falling!!!!!! ..where the heck are them darned marshmellows... i do not spray bio based products,,,i have,,,some worked better than others....i was "green enough(thats newbee for those of you from loma linda)" then that some of the "fault" could very well have been mine as well (testicals inflateing..lol)...in todays market i see no reason to pay a "premium" for a "bio-based" polyol,,,in fact,,in the products very beginning,,,i was excited real excited,,thinking that "hey man,,there gonna make this stuff out of beans and corn and stuff,,,and i gots beans comin out my ears here in the cornfield!!!!well anyway,,it got some real good press,,and a few individuals testicals swelled as well,,,and poof...a premium product was born,,,, if you spray a closed cell product right now and it is working,,,take a few seconds and educate the customer as to some of the phacts about spray foam chemistry,,, with proper education,,it should soon become evident that allowing you to use a product you already know,,,can bid accurately,,,apply correctly with confidence from experience,,,will afford the customer the best bang for their buck..and a product that,,, even if both are applied correctly,,, will have equal performance... if they start the "enviro-wacko" trip on ya...lean up against the foundation sealer and smile...or maybe reach out and show em a piece of the plastic tubeing that thier water is flowin thru,,, no ,,,maybe dont do that...lol.. a few things i learned from this forum in the end.. chemistry is chemistry,,, physics is physics foam is foam foam good 'dude |
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Jim Coler
Posted: Jul 21, 2008 11:15 PM
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OK, it's been almost a week now and I still haven't been able to find any more details about this fire other than in the Nashville news. It only states that a company was using "blown in insulation" in the attic at the time of the fire. Haven't heard anything about it on the fire investigation scene either. Do you have any more details about it, like where exactly it happened, using what product, who sprayed it, and any contact information on more information about this incident? Back to the original question on forum - I have heard about some soy based foams having issues, and tried BioBased (biobased.net) without issues. From what I hear BioBased is one of the only water blown closed cell foams. Premium? I didn't see much of a premium for the BioBased versus standard petroleum 245 blown foam. If you think about it, Honeywell needs to get their piece of the pie and oil keeps going up. Soy based foam might not be a bad idea since soybeans are the most exported product from the US and has been for years. I haven't seen any issues with it so far and will likely be using it more in the future. |
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SPFer
Posted: Sep 23, 2008 07:37 AM
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I have tried bio-based and had am impresed with the foam. Also, I was not paying a premium for the foam, in fact I can get it for cheaper than the Bay Seal I was spraying before. The soy based just makes it easier to sell. Hey, I know that in reality it is not much greener than any other foam and the chemical difference is very little. But, green is in the marketing and any advantage over my competitors will help keep the trigger pulling. |
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Jim Coler
Posted: Sep 24, 2008 08:34 AM
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I did some research on the soy content thing and it seems the polyol is what makes the difference which can makes up about 50%-60% of the B side. BioBased is claiming an almost all soy based polyol, where many of the other are only 10% or less soy based polyols. When you start doing the math, 10% of 50-60% is 5%. The you put the A side into the mix and you're in the 2.5% soy content for some where if BioBased is an almost pure soy derived polyol, then it would be about a 25-30% soy based - if my numbers are right. That means that it's using 1/4-1/3 less petroleum than standard formulas. So, that doesn't seem to be a very little chemical difference to me and I'm planning to use more BioBased because it seems to be the way the industry is trending and they seem to be leading the way with the soy content. |
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Posted: Sep 25, 2008 07:29 AM
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rocks... please advise as to the products performance... sprayability yield profile positives and the negatives... inquireing minds need to know |
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Jim Coler
Posted: Sep 25, 2008 03:14 PM
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Like any product other than what you're used to, you have to play with it some and dial in the temps, pressures and other variables. It seems comparable to other open cell foams ion yield and performance. It also depends on the sprayer. If you have a veteran behind the gun, you can get good results from almost anything. If you have a novice, it's pot luck and good luck for the most part as with any open cell. The closed cell has to be warmed up in the drum more than the 245fa blowing agent because it's water blown and water boils at a higher temp than the 245fa. So, you have to be careful there but if it's warm and you understand it, it sprays well. Yields again vary depending on how they are measured, on a few sets I've tried, I've gotten about 14000-15500bdft for open cell and about 5000bdft for the closed cell. It does have a different smell and it doesn't seem as harsh of a smell as a 245fa blowing agent foam. Overall similar results to other foams and it seems to have good marketing potential with the industry trend. |
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SPFer
Posted: Oct 22, 2008 07:48 AM
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Rocks, Have you had any shrinkage problem with the open cell? That is the only issue we have with the foam. The yield is fine, and the odor is less strong than any other foam we have sprayed. |
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Posted: Oct 23, 2008 09:16 PM
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Temperature seems to be the common problem where soy-based products are concerned. Try turning the temperature up a little and see how that works. Petro based foam applicators seem to have a little more difficulty adjusting to soy based products because of the temp increase. If that doesn't work call JR @ 706-818-1942 and he'll get you straight quick. Good luck. |
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Jim Coler
Posted: Oct 28, 2008 07:16 AM
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As some have said with the temperature, moisture content of wood and pressures used, any material has the patentiol to shrink if these are not right. If you get them right, it's normally not much of an issue. |
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Posted: Nov 15, 2008 09:22 AM
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If your paying more for Bay Seal that you are for Bio-based, your buying from the Wrong company. I work for a distributor that offers both Bay Systems and LaPolla spray foam, and I'm cheaper per lb than Bio every single time I meet with a 'Bio Contracor'. |
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richard sucher II
Posted: Nov 20, 2008 10:21 AM
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with soy based foams, what ambient temps are you spraying these materials. unlike closed cell foam systems that can be formulated for "cold weather" applications, open celled foam material seems to be one formula - no warm/cold formulations. At what temps - ambient/substrate do you stop trying to use soy based materials. Is it 50 degrees, 40 degrees, 30 degrees. At what point is temp of substrate the biggest issue and not mixing of the product and hose temp. Thanks. |
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Glenn Gamblin
Posted: Dec 10, 2008 10:41 AM
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I tried spraying the soy based heatlock from demilec and was not thoroughly impressed. Actually hated it would better describe the experience, it simply would not spray nearly as smooth as the BASF that I have sprayed for many years now. And no harping on temperatures and pressures, im no nubbie. Not to mention the fact that some of the foam actually fell off the roof a year later! I have sprayed thousands of jobs and this is the only time i have seen this, the metal was brand new, clean, free of moisture, 60 degrees, and I assure you it had no oily residue. And why the heck do they make it green? It is almost impossible to paint it and get rid of that greenish tint. Also, the stuff put off the harshest fumes I have ever smelled, sure I use a fresh air respirator, but just taking it off and walking out of the building about made me sick to my stomach, so I think I will continue using BASF |
