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JohnPeters Posted: Mar 30, 2009 05:19 PM	Thinking Caps Only Guys / Gals, I got a doozey. Ready? Graco E-30 approx 2 years old with moderate use. Ok, I have been struggling with some E01 and E04 errors for almost 6 months (on the hose temp digital display). They were more of an annoyance then anything. We would have to run out to the trailer and reset the machine. No big deal. I swapped out a temp control board in an attempt to fix the issue with no resolve. After the temp control board swap we decided to check all of the connections at each section of hose. Everything looked good. In checking the connections we moved the TSU from the whip connection back 50'. For some reason this is when things started to get really strange. We moved the TSU because we heard it would provide less of a beating on it. We would typically recirculate A and B with a hose recirc kit at the start of a shift until the B side was reading between 85 and 95 and then spray. It worked great. Once we moved the TSU back is seemed like it would take a lot longer to get everything up to temp and the temps were much more erratic. Then we noticed that the whip heat was intermittent. It would be hot to the touch sometimes then other times it would be cold. SO to eliminate the whip we looped the hose heat before it. So we essentially have an unheated whip. The E01's and E04's appear to be gone now. But now we have some messed up foam. Our 0.5 lb open cell is spraying with large cells, and slow to rise. The stuff looks like french bread. We tried uping the temps. We usually spray at 140, but we bumped to 145, 150, 160...Still french bread - which indicates to me that the foam is cold. When we temped "the wet" it was coming out at 80! Thats with the temps at 150 and the materials circulated up to 95. So we decided to calibrate the E-30 heat out put (because we moved the TSU). But we did so after they system temps were up for awhile. The foam is still spraying french bready. We have bumped the temps up to 170 to compensate for the possible miscalibration we might have done. Do you think this messed up our heating out put? Did we fry the surfactants? Fry the catalyst? Keep in mind that our wet (at the cone of the spray) is coming in around 80. We are going to try a new set of foam tomorrow. Fingers crossed. ANy ideas out there?
Posted: Mar 30, 2009 08:23 PM	You are sure only 80? I wouldn't think the foam would even atomize at that low of a temp. Hehe, sure it isn't 80C?? Tim
Posted: Mar 30, 2009 08:53 PM	Hi John My first thought is that if the foam is coming out of the gun at 80 degrees, something isn't working. I was on my blackberry when I read your post today and we were spraying Polyurea with the hose set at 180. I put an infrared thermometer on the spray coming out of the gun and we were in the high 170's. Your heat coming out of the gun should be very close to what the hose heaters are set at. If not, you will see the following: If the material is that cold coming out of the gun, you should be able to shoot the foam about 20 ft or so and it will look earily similar to a Coke Icee when it is coming out. My suggestion would be to put the Thermacouple at the beginning of the last 50 ft + 10 ft whip. If you are seeing the E01 and E04, then it is one of the conections on the hose that has either slipped loose or you have a short in the line somewhere. Are the connections the newer ones that are crimped and then set in place with set screws or the old style plug in for your heater wires on your hoses? Goodluck, Steve
Posted: Mar 30, 2009 10:02 PM	John, If the problem persists tomorrow give the guys at foampak a call, there service is second to none in this industry. We have been buying parts/supplies from these guys for over 20 yrs and we haven't had a problem yet that they haven't walked us thru over the phone. Lots of people are selling material and building rigs now but very few could give the service and knowledge of these guys. There number is 856-467-1848. Kevin is there top dog ask for him. Good Luck.
sprayaway Posted: Mar 31, 2009 07:11 AM	John, give CPI a call and ask for Tech (330)861-5200.
JohnPeters Posted: Mar 31, 2009 05:15 PM	LOL So we contacted the manufacturer. Turns out they sent us a bad set of foam. They sent us a new one immediately. We recirc the new set this morning and we're still getting the same results (french bread, slow rise). Now we're thinking its the machine again. After a few hours of trouble shooting we get a hold of a product manager at the manufacturer. Turns out they completely changed the formula of their 0.5 lb OC. The foam needs to be sprayed at 150 and the rise time 3x's slower then the original formula. They also recommend spraying at 1500 psi. We make the changes and boom - good looking foam is back. We lost 4 days of work because we never got the word about the foam changing ingredients and processing parameters. Moral of the story - make sure the foam is legit before you start cracking open your machine. Thanks for all the help everyone!
JohnPeters Posted: Mar 31, 2009 05:23 PM	Oh yea. Also turns out our temp gun was on the fritz. All the temp readings we had were bogus. thanks again ya'll.
Posted: Apr 02, 2009 10:50 AM	whos foam was it?
JohnPeters Posted: Apr 02, 2009 05:58 PM	I'd rather not say. The manufacturer is in the process of getting back to me on the details of the miss-communication. There may be some possible concessions being sent my way for the headaches. If the manufacturer does not do their best to make the situation nice-nice, then I will be obliged to release the name.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 06, 2009 10:13 PM	North of Ohio, or south? John..

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Comments

JohnPeters

Posted: Mar 30, 2009 05:19 PM

Thinking Caps Only

Guys / Gals,

I got a doozey. Ready? Graco E-30 approx 2 years old with moderate use.

Ok, I have been struggling with some E01 and E04 errors for almost 6 months (on the hose temp digital display). They were more of an annoyance then anything. We would have to run out to the trailer and reset the machine. No big deal.

I swapped out a temp control board in an attempt to fix the issue with no resolve.

After the temp control board swap we decided to check all of the connections at each section of hose. Everything looked good. In checking the connections we moved the TSU from the whip connection back 50'. For some reason this is when things started to get really strange. We moved the TSU because we heard it would provide less of a beating on it.

We would typically recirculate A and B with a hose recirc kit at the start of a shift until the B side was reading between 85 and 95 and then spray. It worked great. Once we moved the TSU back is seemed like it would take a lot longer to get everything up to temp and the temps were much more erratic.

Then we noticed that the whip heat was intermittent. It would be hot to the touch sometimes then other times it would be cold. SO to eliminate the whip we looped the hose heat before it. So we essentially have an unheated whip. The E01's and E04's appear to be gone now. But now we have some messed up foam.

Our 0.5 lb open cell is spraying with large cells, and slow to rise. The stuff looks like french bread. We tried uping the temps. We usually spray at 140, but we bumped to 145, 150, 160...Still french bread - which indicates to me that the foam is cold. When we temped "the wet" it was coming out at 80! Thats with the temps at 150 and the materials circulated up to 95.

So we decided to calibrate the E-30 heat out put (because we moved the TSU). But we did so after they system temps were up for awhile. The foam is still spraying french bready. We have bumped the temps up to 170 to compensate for the possible miscalibration we might have done. Do you think this messed up our heating out put? Did we fry the surfactants? Fry the catalyst?

Keep in mind that our wet (at the cone of the spray) is coming in around 80.

We are going to try a new set of foam tomorrow. Fingers crossed. ANy ideas out there?

Posted: Mar 30, 2009 08:23 PM

You are sure only 80*? I wouldn't think the foam would even atomize at that low of a temp. Hehe, sure it isn't 80*C??

Tim

Posted: Mar 30, 2009 08:53 PM

Hi John

My first thought is that if the foam is coming out of the gun at 80 degrees, something isn't working.

I was on my blackberry when I read your post today and we were spraying Polyurea with the hose set at 180. I put an infrared thermometer on the spray coming out of the gun and we were in the high 170's. Your heat coming out of the gun should be very close to what the hose heaters are set at. If not, you will see the following:

If the material is that cold coming out of the gun, you should be able to shoot the foam about 20 ft or so and it will look earily similar to a Coke Icee when it is coming out.

My suggestion would be to put the Thermacouple at the beginning of the last 50 ft + 10 ft whip. If you are seeing the E01 and E04, then it is one of the conections on the hose that has either slipped loose or you have a short in the line somewhere.

Are the connections the newer ones that are crimped and then set in place with set screws or the old style plug in for your heater wires on your hoses?

Goodluck,

Steve

Posted: Mar 30, 2009 10:02 PM

John,
If the problem persists tomorrow give the guys at foampak a call, there service is second to none in this industry. We have been buying parts/supplies from these guys for over 20 yrs and we haven't had a problem yet that they haven't walked us thru over the phone. Lots of people are selling material and building rigs now but very few could give the service and knowledge of these guys. There number is 856-467-1848. Kevin is there top dog ask for him.
Good Luck.

sprayaway

Posted: Mar 31, 2009 07:11 AM

John, give CPI a call and ask for Tech (330)861-5200.

JohnPeters

Posted: Mar 31, 2009 05:15 PM

LOL

So we contacted the manufacturer. Turns out they sent us a bad set of foam. They sent us a new one immediately.

We recirc the new set this morning and we're still getting the same results (french bread, slow rise). Now we're thinking its the machine again.

After a few hours of trouble shooting we get a hold of a product manager at the manufacturer. Turns out they completely changed the formula of their 0.5 lb OC. The foam needs to be sprayed at 150 and the rise time 3x's slower then the original formula. They also recommend spraying at 1500 psi. We make the changes and boom - good looking foam is back.

We lost 4 days of work because we never got the word about the foam changing ingredients and processing parameters.

Moral of the story - make sure the foam is legit before you start cracking open your machine.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

JohnPeters

Posted: Mar 31, 2009 05:23 PM

Oh yea. Also turns out our temp gun was on the fritz. All the temp readings we had were bogus.

thanks again ya'll.

Posted: Apr 02, 2009 10:50 AM

whos foam was it?

JohnPeters

Posted: Apr 02, 2009 05:58 PM

I'd rather not say. The manufacturer is in the process of getting back to me on the details of the miss-communication. There may be some possible concessions being sent my way for the headaches.

If the manufacturer does not do their best to make the situation nice-nice, then I will be obliged to release the name.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 06, 2009 10:13 PM

North of Ohio, or south? John..

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