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JohnPeters Posted: Dec 21, 2010 07:12 AM	1.) Where does your foam come from??!! 2. ) flash and crap 1.) Well do you know?? Sure, the end all be all answer to this question is from Demilec, Bayer, Icynene, etc, etc. But if you are not buying direct, you should know who the distributor your buying from is affiliated with. A previous string touched on this topic. We all have local distributors in the area that have sold fiberglass for decades and are starting to sell foam. What you might not know is that distributor is owned by a very large, national entity that also owns the douche bag you are competing against (whos offering the flash and batt crap). Companies like service partners (which is owned by MASCO) and IBP (to name a couple) own hundreds of insulation contractors all over the US, they also own all of the major distributors as well. The vast majority of these corpratized contractors do horrible work, recommend wacky application approaches, and bring down what the market will bear for installation of foam. Make sure to ask if your distributor is affiliated with any of your competitors and try to buy direct if you can. By purchasing from these entities, we're helping them to buy products cheaper which exacerbates their low bid pricing. 2.) There is one reason and one reason alone they are pushing the flash and batt appplications, because their primary revenue stream is fiberglass sales, and they've seen those numbers drop off significantly. Over the last 6 months, 2 fiberglass manufacturing plants have shut down for OwensC. Corporate giants who were previously mentioned find the degenerates of society, pay them next to nothing and rotate employees quicker than a McDonalds employee roster. And Why? Becuase the dumbest rock in a box can install fiberglass. Unfortunately for them, some intelligence is required for foam install. This will ultimately be there undoing as they try to pay ex-convicts minimum wage to manufacture cellularized plastic. A foam installer is (should be) a "craftsman", no different than a skilled carpenter or plumber. Minimum wage ain't going to cut it. Both Ownes C and Knauf are pushing aggressive marketing campaigns to sell fiberglass anyway, anyhow. Utilizing latex based air sealants to spray the perimeters of wall cavities in conjunction with fiberglass. Great idea huh? OK, lets take crap and use it with latex and call it an "ECOSEAL system." A perfect storm has developed for FG manufacturers, the down turn in the housing market coupled with the 8% market share foam has garnered has put them in a tail spin. Their just mad thy didn't invest the R&D dollars to develop their own formulas. Stay vigilant my friends. Happy holidays to my foam brothers.
steven argus Posted: Dec 21, 2010 11:25 AM	I couldn't agree more. All excellent points. As I've said before, don't buy foam from your competition!!! On a side note, it is refreshing to see that the words "douche bag" can make it past the language filter.
quentin Posted: Dec 21, 2010 10:13 PM	Very well put! In the mean time, also educate your customers and any officials you run across so they know that these systems will still have condensation buildup and mold even faster the way they are doing it. Soon they will be having to bulldoze a lot of houses where people bought in to these systems.

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JohnPeters

Posted: Dec 21, 2010 07:12 AM

1.) Where does your foam come from??!! 2. ) flash and crap

1.) Well do you know??

Sure, the end all be all answer to this question is from Demilec, Bayer, Icynene, etc, etc. But if you are not buying direct, you should know who the distributor your buying from is affiliated with.

A previous string touched on this topic. We all have local distributors in the area that have sold fiberglass for decades and are starting to sell foam. What you might not know is that distributor is owned by a very large, national entity that also owns the douche bag you are competing against (whos offering the flash and batt crap).

Companies like service partners (which is owned by MASCO) and IBP (to name a couple) own hundreds of insulation contractors all over the US, they also own all of the major distributors as well. The vast majority of these corpratized contractors do horrible work, recommend wacky application approaches, and bring down what the market will bear for installation of foam.

Make sure to ask if your distributor is affiliated with any of your competitors and try to buy direct if you can.

By purchasing from these entities, we're helping them to buy products cheaper which exacerbates their low bid pricing.

2.)

There is one reason and one reason alone they are pushing the flash and batt appplications, because their primary revenue stream is fiberglass sales, and they've seen those numbers drop off significantly. Over the last 6 months, 2 fiberglass manufacturing plants have shut down for OwensC.

Corporate giants who were previously mentioned find the degenerates of society, pay them next to nothing and rotate employees quicker than a McDonalds employee roster. And Why? Becuase the dumbest rock in a box can install fiberglass. Unfortunately for them, some intelligence is required for foam install. This will ultimately be there undoing as they try to pay ex-convicts minimum wage to manufacture cellularized plastic. A foam installer is (should be) a "craftsman", no different than a skilled carpenter or plumber. Minimum wage ain't going to cut it.

Both Ownes C and Knauf are pushing aggressive marketing campaigns to sell fiberglass anyway, anyhow. Utilizing latex based air sealants to spray the perimeters of wall cavities in conjunction with fiberglass. Great idea huh? OK, lets take crap and use it with latex and call it an "ECOSEAL system." A perfect storm has developed for FG manufacturers, the down turn in the housing market coupled with the 8% market share foam has garnered has put them in a tail spin. Their just mad thy didn't invest the R&D dollars to develop their own formulas.

Stay vigilant my friends. Happy holidays to my foam brothers.

steven argus

Posted: Dec 21, 2010 11:25 AM

I couldn't agree more. All excellent points. As I've said before, don't buy foam from your competition!!! On a side note, it is refreshing to see that the words "douche bag" can make it past the language filter.

quentin

Posted: Dec 21, 2010 10:13 PM

Very well put! In the mean time, also educate your customers and any officials you run across so they know that these systems will still have condensation buildup and mold even faster the way they are doing it. Soon they will be having to bulldoze a lot of houses where people bought in to these systems.

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