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Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 04, 2007 03:17 PM	15kw enough for E20. hello, i am buying a rig and it comes with a GENERAC 15kw gas generator and was wondering if this will suffice for the E-20 i will be spraying with?? before anyone says don't get a gas, i cannot afford a diesel right now unless someone knows a very good deal. thank you. Foam-Pro
Posted: Feb 04, 2007 03:44 PM	Yes it will. You need 50amps at 240 (50x240=12000). But you won't have much left to run anything else and will be stuck with a gas compressor as well. Where do you need to be on price for a diesel unit? Tim
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 04, 2007 03:50 PM	it all depends on what it is i guess. at least big enough torun a bigger machine if i want to upgrade in future. somewhere around $6,000 to $7000 i guess. what do you mean when you say i'll be stuck with a gas compressor?
Raymond Brooks Posted: Feb 04, 2007 04:30 PM	We can get you a 21kw diesel, w/Isuzu 4 cyl, 20 gal tank to you door for about $7200. The problem with going with the 15kw gas is that any electic motor needs consistent power levels. If your primaries and hose and pump call for power at the same time, there could be a shortage or lag in power supply. When that happens, an electric motor will start to heat up, causing premature breakdown over time. I consider a diesel generator an investment, a gas powered is a cost. I have 21kw 3ph diesel running a GlasCraft MHII and Kaeser screw compressor, with still enough left over to power a fresh air compressor and anything else I need.
Posted: Feb 04, 2007 04:33 PM	I am one of those that do not like the gas units. I almost bought one myself and was talked out of it by guys with the experience. I am glad I didn't go that route for many reasons. $6-7K will buy you a brand new generator that you are looking for. http://www.generatorsales.com/order/JD1PH30.asp?page=JD1PH30 for starters. There are more out there, I got my 24KW diesel for about $5K Tim
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 04, 2007 04:38 PM	what spray machine do you use? i'm thinking i should maybe upgrade to e-30. my trailer is going to be a 10,500lb 20 ft tag along, will that trailer hold a diesel? what does your gen weight and what kind of compressor do you have? thank you
Posted: Feb 04, 2007 04:51 PM	I have an E-20. An E-30 would be a smart upgrade if you have the money (having regrets myself here) Fullsize generator weights 1500-2000 pounds. I have a 34' gooseneck and even with 4 sets I am under 12K pounds total. So I would think you would be ok with your trailer. I would do it once and do it right rather than have to do it over again and lose money and time. I have 2 jobs that I cannot reach with 210' of hose and that is the max that I can use with my E-20 (not sure what the limiting factor is) I would go with the E-30 or the Glas-Craft Guardian A5. I also wish I had bigger heaters and the E-20 has 6000 watts, you get get bigger on the Guardian or E-30. Tim
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 04, 2007 05:13 PM	does anyone know what size diesel gen set would be needed for an e-30?
Posted: Feb 04, 2007 05:15 PM	It needs 78 amps at 240 volts with the 10,000 watta heaters. (78x240=18,720watts)100 amps with the 15K watt heaters. If you go three phase then it is different and I am not sure the math to figure it out. If you budget allows better equipment GET IT!! You won't be disappointed. Tim
Lane Hogstad Posted: Feb 04, 2007 05:21 PM	I have a 30 kw works great. I only got a 7.5 hp compressor I'm restricted and it's on the edge. Don't do that to your self. I couldn't imagin going to the job and finding power the right breakers ect. You will have enough problems with out the self inflicted ones. LLH
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 04, 2007 05:31 PM	ultrawideone, what spray machine do you have. fuel compressor or electric?
Lane Hogstad Posted: Feb 04, 2007 06:13 PM	E-20 7.5 electric. If I had it to do again I'd get a E-30 with a screw compressor. Call anytime 605-880-1990 LLH
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 04, 2007 06:26 PM	my set up will be so far, E-20, 15kw gen, 11hp comp. seriously rethinking my setup though. i think i would have to upgrade trailers then also and that would be to much $.
Posted: Feb 04, 2007 06:40 PM	Buy a used trailer if you have to sacrifice. Get the best equipment you can, then just upgrade trailers. Trailers are easy to sell the market us huge, there is a very small market for used foam equipment. Tim
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Feb 04, 2007 08:21 PM	I would choose a glascraft guardian over an E-20 any day. Better hose heat and longer hose length for the same money. Yes, you need one size up compressor, but you can never have enough clean, dry air anyway. Tim, you have a couple of jobs that need more than 200' of hose? What are we going to do? Don't worry, we will make it happen. Concentrate on getting the jobs. George
Arthur Gillis Posted: Feb 04, 2007 09:21 PM	Not sure what you budget is but check this link http://www.generatorsales.com. They have a cummins diesel 40 kw 3 phase for a round $8k.
Timothy Sonney Posted: Feb 05, 2007 12:06 AM	Better question would be, How many times have you shown up to a job site and didn't have ample power available to you to run your rig? We have yet to experience this issue. Residental, or Commercial Use their juice, not yours.... One other big thing to check into.... if go with a generator, will the warranty stand if it is installed in a trailer? Alot of them don't.... another thought is if your generator sh*t's the bed in the middle of the job, do you have the resources and know how to plug into shore power? just some thoughts....
Glenn Gamblin Posted: Feb 06, 2007 03:06 PM	I second that. Why pay for a generator when you can connect to their power. I have done this for 3 years and have had to rent a generator for 2 days. When you look at the initial cost, the price of running a generator on a job, and the extra cost of driving around with the extra weight and a bigger trailer, the real question is why would you want one. Keep the money and invest in better spray equipment, an E 20 is too small. I have 200 feet of welding lead that I stuff into 15 gallon barrels that are welded onto the side of my trailer. They never tangle and it only takes a few moments to hook up to power. I also have an addition 200 feet of number 2 aluminum that I hook up to that with cable clamps if I have to. Besides, the power is a lot cleaner.
Glenn Gamblin Posted: Feb 06, 2007 03:06 PM	I second that. Why pay for a generator when you can connect to their power. I have done this for 3 years and have had to rent a generator for 2 days. When you look at the initial cost, the price of running a generator on a job, and the extra cost of driving around with the extra weight and a bigger trailer, the real question is why would you want one. Keep the money and invest in better spray equipment, an E 20 is too small. I have 200 feet of welding lead that I stuff into 15 gallon barrels that are welded onto the side of my trailer. They never tangle and it only takes a few moments to hook up to power. I also have an addition 200 feet of number 2 aluminum that I hook up to that with cable clamps if I have to. Besides, the power is a lot cleaner.
Posted: Feb 06, 2007 03:43 PM	Three of the last jobs that I looked at for bids would not work for shore power. The first just had a temp hookup that would not have allowed access to the panel. The second place had a fuse panel and the third place only had a 60amp service. I have a generator so it doesn't matter to me, but I guess the old tech is still out there. Granted most work is new construction so you should be ok, but I just don't like the idea of shore power, and I am comfortable with electricity. Why risk it? Tim
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 06, 2007 07:50 PM	Generator(s) for me. Easier and more professional. olger
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Feb 06, 2007 08:28 PM	Glen, What size welding cable do you use and how many amps do you draw? George
Melvin Chandler Posted: Feb 08, 2007 08:40 PM	I'm with Olger. I'm genset all the way and 3 phase at that. Most gensets over 20kw that you find at a rental store (in case of a shutdown) are 3 phase. 3 phase is easier on equipment. When I pull up on a job (anywhere), I flip a switch and I'm running. I don't have to hunt for a panel and then worry about poor volts/amps and breakers kicking. No electrical lines to untangle or cut cords to worry about; not to mention worrying about someone running over the cord or pulling it. I also don't have to worry about any of my workers, who are not electricians, sticking their hands in a fuse panel. I wonder what my insurance agent/carrier would think about that. Part of the reason I never have to worry about kicking breakers is I'm running a 60kw genset which was only a $450.00 upcharge (Nobrainer). I have more juice than you can shake a stick at. I've got other people wanting to hook up to me while I'm running. With the 60kw, I'm only using about 2 gallons of diesel per hour running at half load. That's about $20/day but it was a $14K investment. I know I'm going to make that up over the life of the genset.
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 09:07 PM	Newby, How do you accommodate outlets and lights that run on 110v? I am quite familiar with residential electrical work, but the 3 phase stuff confuses me. Do they make different service panels for 3 phase for the extra line? The 3 phase does seem like a good solution! Thanks, Tim
Chad Gritzmaker Posted: Feb 11, 2007 12:14 PM	I am also looking for the right setup. Shore power sounds like a cost effective solution. But, What if??? It seems like you could be opening yourself/business up to a liability issue. An employee screw up while in the service panel could ruin your life/business and possible his (I'm sure they would find the business owner negligent=LAWSUIT). What will your insurance company say when they find out your hooking up to the service panel? Large guage/high amperage extension cord running across a wet construction site. Etc....That's just my opinion. I am waiting for my H25, and I'm leaning towards a 30kw gen. I will be set up similiar to CPI's Pro 18. Look at a lot of rigs before you settle on one. In my opinion be self contained.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 11, 2007 04:22 PM	Three phase is indeed the way to go. As to the single phase power, purchase a 230/120-volt 3-ph unit and you can pull 230 single off into another panel for lights welder plug etc.. A 208/120 (4-lead) generator will work but it runs a tad low on the single phase side. To compensate for that you can bump the voltage regulator up modestly. Or. purchase a 12-lead generator and rewire it for 230/120. No problem a'tall. olger
Melvin Chandler Posted: Feb 11, 2007 08:28 PM	I think what Olger just said. I'm not much of an electrical guru but I do have a guru electrician on the payroll. I just know we have a 3 phase box and a line dropping into a single phase box. We have plenty of single phase 110 outlets and lights in the rig. He's supposed to have rigged to allow for the single phase items to be plugged into shore power while genset isn't running. That project is somewhat on hold but hope to have it running in the spring.
Posted: Feb 11, 2007 09:01 PM	You know, you can find ANYTHING you want about residential wiring on the internet. I can't find a thing about how to wire 3 phase and how exactly it works. If it is so popular in commercial applications why can't I find answers to my questions? Maybe it is one of those "if you have to ask, you shouldn't be doing it". Regardless, I want to know! Tim
Posted: Feb 13, 2007 07:08 AM	3ph 40kw diesel for my rig,,, i hit the site,,,power up on the way back to the trailer and can have the gun assembled,,hose out.. and be spraying in about 20 minutes,,, did you find the pole yet?? did you run the wire yet?? is the brick mason thrilled you disconnected his high amp saw to "plug in" your rig? last home was 150foot long on the front,,, i was afforded the spot out by the garage,,on the opposite end of the homes mechanical room,,service pole another 30 foot across the yard at the woods edge,,,we were in and out of this site for 2 weeks,,,we did other small jobs in between,,,we wind the hose,,,turn off the gen and go... my contractors have mentioned that they like it that i am "plug and play",,, ???point it out to the contractor when makeing your bid that you are "stand alone power" as this means $$$ to them,,,those 12K heaters and other electrical stuff draw alot of power at the contractors expense,,USE YOUR "stand alone" status as a marketing tool,,,seperates the men from the boys,,, www.gopower.com miami generators,,,ask for juan carlos,,tell him the foamdude from the cornfield sent ya :)
Posted: Feb 13, 2007 07:08 AM	3ph 40kw diesel for my rig,,, i hit the site,,,power up on the way back to the trailer and can have the gun assembled,,hose out.. and be spraying in about 20 minutes,,, did you find the pole yet?? did you run the wire yet?? is the brick mason thrilled you disconnected his high amp saw to "plug in" your rig? last home was 150foot long on the front,,, i was afforded the spot out by the garage,,on the opposite end of the homes mechanical room,,service pole another 30 foot across the yard at the woods edge,,,we were in and out of this site for 2 weeks,,,we did other small jobs in between,,,we wind the hose,,,turn off the gen and go... my contractors have mentioned that they like it that i am "plug and play",,, ???point it out to the contractor when makeing your bid that you are "stand alone power" as this means $$$ to them,,,those 12K heaters and other electrical stuff draw alot of power at the contractors expense,,USE YOUR "stand alone" status as a marketing tool,,,seperates the men from the boys,,, www.gopower.com miami generators,,,ask for juan carlos,,tell him the foamdude from the cornfield sent ya :)
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 13, 2007 07:24 AM	well said foamdude! i am with ya.
philip mullins Posted: Feb 14, 2007 03:24 AM	ok. just a newbie here. i want to run my idea by you guys. i already have a 16' trailer that the salesman told me wont be big enough. and i read a post here about the logistics of moving barrels. i bought a rooftop ac unit off of ebay for $150 bucks. it works fine. gonna rig my trailer for shore power. will be nice if i can find power at the site. bought a 16' box truck that will hold a genset (in an insulated box with an exterior door)and the air compressor. i also will be able to back up to the loading dock and load a few barrels of product. and i dont see any reason that i cant pump product from the truck to the trailer and do away with the whole heavy barrell prob all together. and my truck is diesel powered, so i can feed the gen off the truck tank.and it has a ramp. so i am hoping i can move the whole setup indoors if i run out of hose. i will prob go with the guardian for that reason. so, please, shoot my theory full of holes before i spend too much money! tx
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Feb 14, 2007 06:28 AM	I don't like the idea of pumping chemicals out of the box truck into the trailer. That means that you will have to disconnect and connect fluid lines every time you move the trailer? You are asking for trouble with the ISO. Why not just set everything up in the box truck and be done? George
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 15, 2007 06:11 PM	I thought about that too George. ISO is great stuff when it is contained in a closed, airtight system. All the best, olger
Posted: Feb 11, 2008 03:56 PM	I have been looking at going into the spray foam buisness for about a year and have final decided to go for it. I am working on getting equipment quotes from suppliers and some suggest the H-25 over the E-20. I am curious about the use of shore power vs generator just for my first season. Any idea's
john rioux Posted: Feb 11, 2008 06:36 PM	I am running the 15kw generac, e-20, 16' trailer setup, with a 11hp gas compressor. The generator is at it's limit. I can power a few lights and not much more. I use shore power when available. The generator heats the trailer great in the winter, but it is a pain in the summer, especially when spraying closed cell. It is a good entry level setup, but the e-20 can take up to 2 hours to heat a full set in the dead of winter. You can set up a rig like this fairly cheap, but it costs more in the long run. I can only carry 2 sets, $45.00+ a day in gas. $800.00 repair on a $2200.00 generator, would not do it again. I will be switching to a diesel truck and generator and trading up on the reactor soon.
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Feb 11, 2008 07:45 PM	I own an E-20 so I can speak from experience. Don't buy one! They are great to start because they are cheap and for the beginning contractor they fit the bill nicely. About 6 months to a year in to the business if you are busy you will outgrow the machine. If you have one, don't ever try a hydraulic machine or you will regret ever buying the E-20. I have run mine from day one on a diesel generator and would not consider shore power for a second, too much liability. A2Foamer, I assume you are spraying water blown 2# foam. If so, buy a 1000 watt band heater and keep that on the B drum. That way when you start spraying each day you have a hot drum and are ready to go. I don't recirculate the A. Anything around 60*F or above and it is ready to go. My trailer is insulated and I have a small heater that runs overnight in the winter. Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
john rioux Posted: Feb 11, 2008 08:08 PM	I have 2" closed cell on my trailer, band heaters, small electric heater for overnight, but most of our jobs are 2+ sets, so we are either picking up a set thats been delivered cold or driving 50 miles to our suppliers warehouse, loading in the back of a pickup and offloading on site. I can't afford to keep extra sets in stock. I spray mostly 500 and Agribalance, but also Heatlok and Insulstar.
Posted: Feb 12, 2008 12:54 AM	I was planning on using my 28' enclosed trailer for the H-25 the first job if i get the equipment will be 5 set. i don't have a supplier 50 miles away. my nearest supplier is 300 miles away and will require a day trip or shipped by truck. I started looking at adding this service to my construction buisness to increase my services and personally i plan on build two mor large homes. i figured what i would pay to have my two houses sprayed would alone pay for the base equipment(not counting trailer,generator and i already have a big compressor).
clint moore Posted: Feb 12, 2008 10:07 AM	You need to call John Linn @ Intech Equipment,He built a trailer rig w/e-30,diesel generator,and optional shore power so you don't have to use generator if you have access to power.602-257-0738
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 12, 2008 03:24 PM	I have a 24kw diesel generator (brand new) that I will sell for $4950. It has a sound shroud around it and sits on a 65-gallon tank platform. Pics avaliable. We decided to go with a larger unit on our new rig. oG
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 12, 2008 06:42 PM	contact me with specs on unit. thinking about upgrading to e30 and diesel power. lol i was thread starter one year ago. cmaturi@yahoo.com, craig_m@mdi.org