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Barbara Dramer Posted: Sep 04, 2007 11:09 PM	ABS is damaged by sprayfoam insulation? I'm an owner builder in California's central valley (hot & dry climate) and recently had spray foam installed in an apartment over my garage. I think it's great and recommend it to a lot of people. Also, I've done tons and tons of research on it. So imagine my surprise when my neighbor across the street, who is redoing her kitchen, is told by two different building inspectors that spray foam insulation is harmful to ABS plumbing pipe, and they advise her not to use it. She had gotten a bid to do her kitchen walls and attic with the foam, but after what the inspectors said, she went with fiberglass. I was dumbfounded. I'd never heard of any problem with ABS, and so I went to the internet and after about 3 hours of searching I am coming up with absolutely NOTHING!! These inspectors, both of whom had backgrounds as plumbers, told her that the ABS deteriorates when in direct contact with spray form (closed vs open, soy vs polyurethane not part of their comments). What gives? I suspect these guys are just blowing smoke. But why? Who would they be protecting? I cannot find anything in writing anywhere about this "problem". Can you comment?
mason Posted: Sep 05, 2007 08:03 AM	This is a new issue that has come up in the sprayfoam world. ABS pipe was used fairly extensively in the housing market and had some problems with leaks. In fact a class action suit was settled to address problems from pipes installed from 1984 to 1990 in homes. (see attached websites. http://www.abspipes.com/id.html and http://www.codecheck.com/abs.htm Nowadays, we see these type of pipes in irrigation systems. The are sensitive to sunlight and heat as demonstrated in an ABS manufacturer's website under "STORAGE & HANDLING You can store ABS pipe and fittings either inside or outside. Protect the material from direct sunlight as exposure to the sun can cause uneven expansion. Store ABS pipe on a level support to prevent sagging or bending" At least one ABS Pipe manufacturer claim the heat of the foam reaction causes them to swell and the fittings leak. They say the pipes should not be exposed to temperatures over a hundred degrees F. Hard to do in most southern states and Arizona and Nevada. I have seen no evidence to indicate that there is any type of chemical reaction from the foam ingredients to the ABS. In fact some pipe manufacturers use polyurethane foam as an insulation around the pipe. I found this bulletin board discussion on the International Code Council's forum on the issue. Again, the common knowledge is that sprayfoam causes no damage. http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001979 I suspect that a few ABS manufacturer's have had some in field failures and are grasping at straws to blame anything but their product.

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Barbara Dramer

Posted: Sep 04, 2007 11:09 PM

ABS is damaged by sprayfoam insulation?

I'm an owner builder in California's central valley (hot & dry climate) and recently had spray foam installed in an apartment over my garage. I think it's great and recommend it to a lot of people. Also, I've done tons and tons of research on it. So imagine my surprise when my neighbor across the street, who is redoing her kitchen, is told by two different building inspectors that spray foam insulation is harmful to ABS plumbing pipe, and they advise her not to use it. She had gotten a bid to do her kitchen walls and attic with the foam, but after what the inspectors said, she went with fiberglass. I was dumbfounded. I'd never heard of any problem with ABS, and so I went to the internet and after about 3 hours of searching I am coming up with absolutely NOTHING!! These inspectors, both of whom had backgrounds as plumbers, told her that the ABS deteriorates when in direct contact with spray form (closed vs open, soy vs polyurethane not part of their comments). What gives? I suspect these guys are just blowing smoke. But why? Who would they be protecting? I cannot find anything in writing anywhere about this "problem". Can you comment?

mason

Posted: Sep 05, 2007 08:03 AM

This is a new issue that has come up in the sprayfoam world. ABS pipe was used fairly extensively in the housing market and had some problems with leaks. In fact a class action suit was settled to address problems from pipes installed from 1984 to 1990 in homes. (see attached websites. http://www.abspipes.com/id.html
and http://www.codecheck.com/abs.htm

Nowadays, we see these type of pipes in irrigation systems. The are sensitive to sunlight and heat as demonstrated in an ABS manufacturer's website under

"STORAGE & HANDLING
You can store ABS pipe and fittings either inside or outside. Protect the material from direct sunlight as exposure to the sun can cause uneven expansion. Store ABS pipe on a level support to prevent sagging or bending"

At least one ABS Pipe manufacturer claim the heat of the foam reaction causes them to swell
and the fittings leak. They say the pipes should not be exposed to temperatures over a hundred degrees F. Hard to do in most southern states and Arizona and Nevada.

I have seen no evidence to indicate that there is any type of chemical reaction from the foam ingredients to the ABS. In fact some pipe manufacturers use polyurethane foam as an insulation around the pipe.

I found this bulletin board discussion on the International Code Council's forum on the issue. Again, the common knowledge is that sprayfoam causes no damage.

http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001979

I suspect that a few ABS manufacturer's have had some in field failures and are grasping at straws to blame anything but their product.

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