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Laura Posted: Jan 21, 2018 06:41 PM	Air pockets in my spf walls and under roof decking!!! Just installed open cell in my exterior walls and under roof decking. I was about to hand drywall when I another spf contractor noted it was a terrible installation and we found huge voids b/t every stud and the rafters. It looks like cavity is full but when you push into it there is only about 1" on the surface and air behind it. What happened and what do I do? In the attic when you push your hand into the foam there are air pockets and you can feel the heat trapped in the void on the underside of the decking. What can be done? I am loosing sleep and extremely stressed about the situation!!! The spf contractor and the Thermoseal rep plan to meet next week. I really appreciate any advice you may have for me. Thank you!!!
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Jan 21, 2018 08:59 PM	What climate zone are you in? Were you or the contractor using kerosene jet heater to attempt to heat the area up? What were the temperatures of the walls before and during install? With the colder temperatures across most of our nation, I suspect the substrate was not of adequate temperature and it caused condensation on the inside of the wall which caused excessive water for the foam to react to! This can cause the foam to leave pockets behind what appears to be well installed foam. What I would suggest as a solution would be to go around and feel for the pockets and pull out a small portion of the foam exposing the pocket area and have the contractor come back and spray into the pocket filling the voids! Or the other alternative is t tear out most of the wall insulation and have them come back and spray it again!
Laura laura Posted: Jan 21, 2018 10:30 PM	Thank you for responding so quickly! I am a nervous reck over this!!! I live in the south in Alabama but typically we have mild winters but a during the install there was a 5 day hard freeze which is not the norm. Even the contractor said he has never installed in such cold weather, he said it took 3 hours for his rig to heat up to the appropriate temperature. So yes the installer told me they heat up the house first with a small machine looking thing most likely the jet heater. He said he has to turn it off once they start spraying b/c it dangerous to have it running with sprayer. Cant really feel the pockets but every wall area b/t the joists I push on renders a LARGE void!!! The wall foam can be easily, just time consuming and messy, removed. There will be bits and pieces left along studs - can that be sprayed over and get the good results? How do I get control of all the foam removal w/o bagging which would be time consuming? My biggest concern is the attic! YIKES, going to have a hard attack :( It is thick in many places covering the rafters and NO way to tell of the voids. I randomly, and without fail each and every time, dig into the foam to find a cavity closest to the decking. Still a good bit of foam but the voids concern me greatly, even in this cooler weather we are having now - 50's the pockets feel very warm! What to do I don't know? In addition the contractor left all the old batts in the ceiling joists! I thought that is a no no!? Not even sure if the foam touches the top plate. Another contractor gave me a price of $1700 per day for removal of the foam. 5 guys working 8 hour days for approx. 5 days. WOW! Its about 4000 sf home with a low pitched roof, 5.5/12 which concerns me due to the low access. How much do you remove? can the foam stay in chucks on the rafters? What is the protocol here? The manufactures rep is meeting up tomorrow to look at the job. I have requested him send it off to be tested. I just want this guy to pay for the repairs and I will handle it!!! I go not have faith in him. In addition while installing they over sprayed my brand new tub... $925 and tore up some of my new mechanical system in the attic in which duct work had to be replaced $835 What to do... I am sick, cant move forward with my home. thank you again for your input.
Laura laura Posted: Jan 22, 2018 01:26 AM	Can you tell me why there lots of large droppings of foam all over floor, not an overspray. It was a mess. What caused this? Please advise. Thank you again!
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Jan 26, 2018 09:03 PM	Alabama is a much warmer climate than what I’m used to up in Upstate NY! If that was applied in upstate ny, I would have major concerns of ice damming. But down in Alabama, the concern is much less because you don’t get he snow load or icing potential. But you do get warmer and more humid weather which can affect your decision. I would first contact the installer and see if their willing to come Makensie it right, consider that it appears it was sprayed when the foam was too cold. The dripping or dropping of the foam tells me there material temps were not high enough! At least you give him the chance to come back and make it right, but it doesn’t sound like he’ll go for it! I would consider hiring a third party to come in who can also be another spray foam installer and advise on where the voids need to be aprayed. Have them pull some of each section out to open it up and expose the cavity. And I would consider hiring a different installer to come in and spray the cavities full. In the attic, I would put it on record that it appears the contractor sprayed it when the material was too cold and there may be cavities in the attic which may include additional damages in the future which may include roofing materials, roof sheathing, additional framing and insulation repairs/replacement! I currently work for a third party inspection company, named Terracon who has offices down there with someone who can come in and identifying the areas of concern. Then I would consider charging the original contractor fo any additional damages yuh incur. Sorry about your situation and best of luck! Jim

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Comments

Laura

Posted: Jan 21, 2018 06:41 PM

Air pockets in my spf walls and under roof decking!!!

Just installed open cell in my exterior walls and under roof decking. I was about to hand drywall when I another spf contractor noted it was a terrible installation and we found huge voids b/t every stud and the rafters. It looks like cavity is full but when you push into it there is only about 1" on the surface and air behind it. What happened and what do I do? In the attic when you push your hand into the foam there are air pockets and you can feel the heat trapped in the void on the underside of the decking. What can be done? I am loosing sleep and extremely stressed about the situation!!! The spf contractor and the Thermoseal rep plan to meet next week. I really appreciate any advice you may have for me. Thank you!!!

jimcoler

I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs.

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Jan 21, 2018 08:59 PM

What climate zone are you in? Were you or the contractor using kerosene jet heater to attempt to heat the area up? What were the temperatures of the walls before and during install?

With the colder temperatures across most of our nation, I suspect the substrate was not of adequate temperature and it caused condensation on the inside of the wall which caused excessive water for the foam to react to! This can cause the foam to leave pockets behind what appears to be well installed foam.

What I would suggest as a solution would be to go around and feel for the pockets and pull out a small portion of the foam exposing the pocket area and have the contractor come back and spray into the pocket filling the voids! Or the other alternative is t tear out most of the wall insulation and have them come back and spray it again!

Laura

laura

Posted: Jan 21, 2018 10:30 PM

Thank you for responding so quickly! I am a nervous reck over this!!! I live in the south in Alabama but typically we have mild winters but a during the install there was a 5 day hard freeze which is not the norm. Even the contractor said he has never installed in such cold weather, he said it took 3 hours for his rig to heat up to the appropriate temperature.

So yes the installer told me they heat up the house first with a small machine looking thing most likely the jet heater. He said he has to turn it off once they start spraying b/c it dangerous to have it running with sprayer.

Cant really feel the pockets but every wall area b/t the joists I push on renders a LARGE void!!! The wall foam can be easily, just time consuming and messy, removed. There will be bits and pieces left along studs - can that be sprayed over and get the good results? How do I get control of all the foam removal w/o bagging which would be time consuming?

My biggest concern is the attic! YIKES, going to have a hard attack :( It is thick in many places covering the rafters and NO way to tell of the voids. I randomly, and without fail each and every time, dig into the foam to find a cavity closest to the decking. Still a good bit of foam but the voids concern me greatly, even in this cooler weather we are having now - 50's the pockets feel very warm! What to do I don't know? In addition the contractor left all the old batts in the ceiling joists! I thought that is a no no!? Not even sure if the foam touches the top plate.

Another contractor gave me a price of $1700 per day for removal of the foam. 5 guys working 8 hour days for approx. 5 days. WOW! Its about 4000 sf home with a low pitched roof, 5.5/12 which concerns me due to the low access. How much do you remove? can the foam stay in chucks on the rafters? What is the protocol here?

The manufactures rep is meeting up tomorrow to look at the job. I have requested him send it off to be tested. I just want this guy to pay for the repairs and I will handle it!!! I go not have faith in him.

In addition while installing they over sprayed my brand new tub... $925 and tore up some of my new mechanical system in the attic in which duct work had to be replaced $835

What to do... I am sick, cant move forward with my home.

thank you again for your input.

Laura

laura

Posted: Jan 22, 2018 01:26 AM

Can you tell me why there lots of large droppings of foam all over floor, not an overspray. It was a mess. What caused this? Please advise. Thank you again!

jimcoler

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Jan 26, 2018 09:03 PM

Alabama is a much warmer climate than what I’m used to up in Upstate NY! If that was applied in upstate ny, I would have major concerns of ice damming. But down in Alabama, the concern is much less because you don’t get he snow load or icing potential. But you do get warmer and more humid weather which can affect your decision.

I would first contact the installer and see if their willing to come Makensie it right, consider that it appears it was sprayed when the foam was too cold. The dripping or dropping of the foam tells me there material temps were not high enough! At least you give him the chance to come back and make it right, but it doesn’t sound like he’ll go for it!

I would consider hiring a third party to come in who can also be another spray foam installer and advise on where the voids need to be aprayed. Have them pull some of each section out to open it up and expose the cavity. And I would consider hiring a different installer to come in and spray the cavities full.

In the attic, I would put it on record that it appears the contractor sprayed it when the material was too cold and there may be cavities in the attic which may include additional damages in the future which may include roofing materials, roof sheathing, additional framing and insulation repairs/replacement!

I currently work for a third party inspection company, named Terracon who has offices down there with someone who can come in and identifying the areas of concern.

Then I would consider charging the original contractor fo any additional damages yuh incur.

Sorry about your situation and best of luck!
Jim

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