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Author	Comments
Jesse envirofoam.info Posted: Apr 24, 2012 10:44 PM	Bidding extremely LARGE projects I received an invitation to bid on insulating the exterior walls of 30+ buildings with closed-cell applied from the outside (siding and sheeting removed). If the project specs 3.5" of foam and requires $80k in materials (@ $0.62 b.f.), then, assuming nothing out of the ordinary, in what ballpark should my bid lie to be fair and competitive? Should I be under $0.80 b.f.? ...going rate around here is about $0.93 b.f. for one house at that thickness. I'm interested to know what's the safest minimum profit margin I should leave myself. ...take into consideration I've only been spraying for 5 months (though I think I do well). Thanks guys for any advice.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Apr 25, 2012 12:23 PM	Be careful with the bigger jobs. Alot of times you think that you are going to get good production but it winds up being slow going due to additional safety meetings, other subs and scheduling conflicts. George
richard sucher II Posted: Apr 25, 2012 01:50 PM	Where to start. Safety meetings, OSHA, high winds, overspray claims, increased insurance limits, possible bonding requirement w/indemnification, slow pay with retainage, call backs. Hard to protect your material pricing and job could run into wide range of temperatures that could affect your yields. Is the job Davis-Bacon wage scale. Check it out. If so, production has a tendency to slow as workers like the increased pay. at 3.5", am assuming 2x4 cavity - lots of trimming and that can be very time consuming. I would strongly suggest that you look for an experienced partner on this one and bid it joint venture or work as a sub to that experienced foaming contractor. This could break you in a heartbeat. Good luck.
Jesse envirofoam.info Posted: Apr 25, 2012 02:18 PM	Good advice. I've been considering a partnership with another company for their experience on this one. ...though, I don't think that they won anything like this either. Certainly large projects have their complexities that are not present so much with smaller jobs. Experienced spray foam contractors with this knowledge will price that into their bid. Wish I knew how. I'm interested to know if anyone has won such a job, would they share where they're from, what their average board-foot price went down to, what the b.f. material cost was, and what they might have done differently. ...trying to avoid a hard lesson and being broken (and broke) in a heartbeat.
SPFer Posted: Apr 26, 2012 11:41 AM	This is not 1 huge project, but 30 different projects. So, you have the potential for 30 sets of the same problems you would have on a big job. Plus, they will probably not be ready to spray all at once. I would not price it out too cheap.
Posted: Apr 26, 2012 04:52 PM	Large projects never go off without a hitch. I have bid and completed quite a few $250K and larger jobs and the one thing that they have all had in common is that they never work out as planned. They all look very simple on my excel spreadsheet, but it never turns out that way. Usually the main culprit is weather, but the architect, general contractor, other subs can always hold you up. I just completed a 45 actual work day job and had a rig held up on the jobsite all the way from mid December till mid April due to weather, architect and a terrible GC. I sprayed 30 sets in 11 days throughout the entire job and all the rest of the time was dealing with bs and weather. Thankfully I have more than 1 rig, because if I didn't, I would have lost a lot of business while the rig was tied up. You can bid as cheap as you want, but keep in mind I don't care what you think will happen, everything will not go as planned on a large scale job. My best suggestion is to add up all of your anticipated expenses and cost. If you think the job will take 30 days of labor and expenses, you may want to go to 35 or even 40, etc...... Once you put in all of these numbers, then put your profit into the job. If you work on 10% on a large project and things go bad, you will lose money and go in the hole. My suggestion is 30% or better over all expenses. If you just want a paycheck with nothing to show for it, go cheap. Goodluck, big jobs don't scare me at all, but I will bet the house on it that 5 each $50K jobs will net more than one $250K job and you will finish a whole lot quicker on the 50K jobs. Steve
Dennis Davidson Posted: Apr 28, 2012 06:10 PM	I'm with Steve on this one. I'll take 5 medium size jobs to one big one and be farther ahead. Get in, get out, get paid, move on! Don't get to excited about the big jobs and unless you have some deep pockets under bidding is a fast way to loose your ass-ets!

Author

Comments

Jesse envirofoam.info

Posted: Apr 24, 2012 10:44 PM

Bidding extremely LARGE projects

I received an invitation to bid on insulating the exterior walls of 30+ buildings with closed-cell applied from the outside (siding and sheeting removed). If the project specs 3.5" of foam and requires $80k in materials (@ $0.62 b.f.), then, assuming nothing out of the ordinary, in what ballpark should my bid lie to be fair and competitive? Should I be under $0.80 b.f.? ...going rate around here is about $0.93 b.f. for one house at that thickness. I'm interested to know what's the safest minimum profit margin I should leave myself. ...take into consideration I've only been spraying for 5 months (though I think I do well).

Thanks guys for any advice.

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Apr 25, 2012 12:23 PM

Be careful with the bigger jobs. Alot of times you think that you are going to get good production but it winds up being slow going due to additional safety meetings, other subs and scheduling conflicts.

George

richard sucher II

Posted: Apr 25, 2012 01:50 PM

Where to start. Safety meetings, OSHA, high winds, overspray claims, increased insurance limits, possible bonding requirement w/indemnification, slow pay with retainage, call backs. Hard to protect your material pricing and job could run into wide range of temperatures that could affect your yields. Is the job Davis-Bacon wage scale. Check it out. If so, production has a tendency to slow as workers like the increased pay. at 3.5", am assuming 2x4 cavity - lots of trimming and that can be very time consuming.

I would strongly suggest that you look for an experienced partner on this one and bid it joint venture or work as a sub to that experienced foaming contractor. This could break you in a heartbeat. Good luck.

Jesse envirofoam.info

Posted: Apr 25, 2012 02:18 PM

Good advice. I've been considering a partnership with another company for their experience on this one. ...though, I don't think that they won anything like this either.

Certainly large projects have their complexities that are not present so much with smaller jobs. Experienced spray foam contractors with this knowledge will price that into their bid. Wish I knew how.

I'm interested to know if anyone has won such a job, would they share where they're from, what their average board-foot price went down to, what the b.f. material cost was, and what they might have done differently.

...trying to avoid a hard lesson and being broken (and broke) in a heartbeat.

SPFer

Posted: Apr 26, 2012 11:41 AM

This is not 1 huge project, but 30 different projects. So, you have the potential for 30 sets of the same problems you would have on a big job. Plus, they will probably not be ready to spray all at once.

I would not price it out too cheap.

Posted: Apr 26, 2012 04:52 PM

Large projects never go off without a hitch. I have bid and completed quite a few $250K and larger jobs and the one thing that they have all had in common is that they never work out as planned. They all look very simple on my excel spreadsheet, but it never turns out that way.

Usually the main culprit is weather, but the architect, general contractor, other subs can always hold you up. I just completed a 45 actual work day job and had a rig held up on the jobsite all the way from mid December till mid April due to weather, architect and a terrible GC. I sprayed 30 sets in 11 days throughout the entire job and all the rest of the time was dealing with bs and weather.

Thankfully I have more than 1 rig, because if I didn't, I would have lost a lot of business while the rig was tied up.

You can bid as cheap as you want, but keep in mind I don't care what you think will happen, everything will not go as planned on a large scale job.

My best suggestion is to add up all of your anticipated expenses and cost. If you think the job will take 30 days of labor and expenses, you may want to go to 35 or even 40, etc......

Once you put in all of these numbers, then put your profit into the job. If you work on 10% on a large project and things go bad, you will lose money and go in the hole. My suggestion is 30% or better over all expenses.

If you just want a paycheck with nothing to show for it, go cheap.

Goodluck, big jobs don't scare me at all, but I will bet the house on it that 5 each $50K jobs will net more than one $250K job and you will finish a whole lot quicker on the 50K jobs.

Steve

Dennis Davidson

Posted: Apr 28, 2012 06:10 PM

I'm with Steve on this one. I'll take 5 medium size jobs to one big one and be farther ahead. Get in, get out, get paid, move on!
Don't get to excited about the big jobs and unless you have some deep pockets under bidding is a fast way to loose your ass-ets!

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