crawl space | Ask Mason Knowles - SPF Consultant | Spray Foam Technical Questions and Answers | SprayFoam Magazine Q&A Forums

Q&A Forums

Author	Comments
Eric Sparks Posted: Aug 29, 2008 04:00 PM	crawl space what kind of a gain would a person see by installing cc foam to a existing older home. thanks
mason Posted: Aug 30, 2008 01:43 PM	It would depend on a lot of factors including, air infiltration, climate, building's construction, and other items. Check out some of my articles on masonknowles.com and I think it will give you a good idea of the type of performance to expect.
Eric Sparks Posted: Aug 30, 2008 02:49 PM	thanks for the quick reply, i have been contacted by alot of customers wanting to add insulation to older homes. has anyone came out with a good product for adding to existing walls.
quentin Posted: Aug 30, 2008 07:49 PM	I know there is a franchise in the local area for a national company called USA Insulation and there are several others. So far I have heard pretty good things about them and one that someone in the forums also does and mentioned. You may want to give them a look.
Rob Granger Posted: Aug 31, 2008 10:19 AM	Sparky, We just purchased injection foam from cfifoam.com. Great product, company, training, and support. Tell Richard that Rob sent you. Rob Yes Foam
quentin Posted: Aug 31, 2008 08:11 PM	Thanks YES. I couldn't remember who it was that had made the jump. I am curious, what is the labor and knowledge difference between that and normal foam? Is it a lot more work and time to get the same job done and are the material costs about the same or less?
Eric Sparks Posted: Aug 31, 2008 09:26 PM	what kind of equipment are you using and could you tell us a little bit more on how it works thanks everyone
mason Posted: Sep 01, 2008 09:12 AM	Remember when adding foam to an existing wall caviity that the space inside the cavity must be empty. If there is fiberglass batts in the wall it will prevent the foam from filling it up. You can use low density SPF or a froth type SPF in older homes that have no insulation without taking off the drywall. But the system has to be specifically designed for that purpose and not every foam manufacturer has that type of system. Check with foam suppliers for their recommendations.
Rob Granger Posted: Sep 01, 2008 09:25 AM	Quentin,Sparky Injection foam has a much easier learning curve. Pour a powdered catalyst into water and mix by circulating with a trash pump. Then pour a resin into water in another tank with water. Just like spray foam, two components mix to form the foam. Finally make some foam into a garbage can checking flow meters for being on-ratio. Adjust pressure at the pumps, if neccessary and then make some foam into a box and weigh(another check for ratio. Now your ready to go! Equipment consists of a trash pump, air compressor, generator, two plastic tanks, two delivery pumps, and tank heaters. Once you have good foam ready to go you can either inject into a wall cavity using a 5/8" hole and a additional vent hole or fill a cavity using a 2 1/2" hole midway up the wall and a 6 foot delivery tube at the gun. Push the tube into the wall and to the bottom, pull out as you fill. Reverse and push the tube to the top and repeat. Costs are considerably less for a 2 x 4 wall cavity and you can charge between $ 2-3 SF. Pay for installer is less $ 14-16 hr. My installer likes injection foam better than spray. This type of foam can be used to insulate wall that have fiberglass in them. The tube takes more force and time to get to the end of the cavity but the foam will compress the fiberglass and save the homeowner an additional 25% on his heating/cooling costs. YES FOAM
mason Posted: Sep 03, 2008 08:18 AM	Yes, I have personally installed hundreds of cavity fill projects with SPF both pour in place and froth applications and also have installed a foam in the 70s that sounds very similar in the type of equipment, mixing and application. That foam left voids if you tried to inject it with fiberglass in the walls. SPF would have similar characteristics of flow and expansion rates as this foam so I don't know how the foam you are promoting would be able to accomplish any different results. I am not too old to learn however, can you provide some projects in my area (Northern Virginia) where this foam is being installed? I wouldn't mind visiting a few job sites and seeing if it performs as you stated. Personal experience is best when using a new product.
Luke Kujacznski Posted: Sep 03, 2008 11:01 AM	Mason, The injection foam that YES is talking about is a great product, however like any product out there a lot of its performance is based on the knowledge and care of the installer. I have done jobs that have had infrared scans done after the foam was installed and on both projects we were more than 95% coverage. There are methods and tricks to ensureing complete coverage, something that can be gained only by experience. Insulsmart is not a magic product, but if installed correctly it can really improve the performance of ones home. Luke
Posted: Sep 04, 2008 10:12 PM	Tripolymer Foam based in white plains new york. 914-428-2517. injection foam at its best. great product. 5.1 R-value at 32 degrees. have injected into empty wall cavities such as a 1920 house this week. just a tad over 3 3/4" cavity. that is about a 19.1 r-value in the wall. before we were done the customer said it was way quieter inside. truck noise was way, way less. (rock quarry down the road) the customer had the Tripolymer put in for the heating season, but is using A/C and can tell the difference. customer is also getting 8" more cellulose in the attic for a R-49. gonna save on the heat bill this winter! done lots of fiberglass insulated home. r-10, r-11 where there is room to add Tripolymer. Injection rig is running way more than spray foam rig at present. Doing block jobs also. just did a block building. 12" concrete block job, single story sales office. Tripolymer is a absolute standout for injection foam. C.P. chemical has been around for 40 years! making Tripolymer for 33 years. absolutely excellent product hands down.

Author

Comments

Eric Sparks

Posted: Aug 29, 2008 04:00 PM

crawl space

what kind of a gain would a person see by installing cc foam to a existing older home. thanks

mason

Posted: Aug 30, 2008 01:43 PM

It would depend on a lot of factors including, air infiltration, climate, building's construction, and other items. Check out some of my articles on masonknowles.com and I think it will give you a good idea of the type of performance to expect.

Eric Sparks

Posted: Aug 30, 2008 02:49 PM

thanks for the quick reply, i have been contacted by alot of customers wanting to add insulation to older homes. has anyone came out with a good product for adding to existing walls.

quentin

Posted: Aug 30, 2008 07:49 PM

I know there is a franchise in the local area for a national company called USA Insulation and there are several others. So far I have heard pretty good things about them and one that someone in the forums also does and mentioned. You may want to give them a look.

Rob Granger

Posted: Aug 31, 2008 10:19 AM

Sparky,
We just purchased injection foam from cfifoam.com. Great product, company, training, and support. Tell Richard that Rob sent you.

Rob
Yes Foam

quentin

Posted: Aug 31, 2008 08:11 PM

Thanks YES. I couldn't remember who it was that had made the jump.

I am curious, what is the labor and knowledge difference between that and normal foam? Is it a lot more work and time to get the same job done and are the material costs about the same or less?

Eric Sparks

Posted: Aug 31, 2008 09:26 PM

what kind of equipment are you using and could you tell us a little bit more on how it works
thanks everyone

mason

Posted: Sep 01, 2008 09:12 AM

Remember when adding foam to an existing wall caviity that the space inside the cavity must be empty. If there is fiberglass batts in the wall it will prevent the foam from filling it up. You can use low density SPF or a froth type SPF in older homes that have no insulation without taking off the drywall. But the system has to be specifically designed for that purpose and not every foam manufacturer has that type of system.

Check with foam suppliers for their recommendations.

Rob Granger

Posted: Sep 01, 2008 09:25 AM

Quentin,Sparky
Injection foam has a much easier learning curve. Pour a powdered catalyst into water and mix by circulating with a trash pump. Then pour a resin into water in another tank with water. Just like spray foam, two components mix to form the foam. Finally make some foam into a garbage can checking flow meters for being on-ratio. Adjust pressure at the pumps, if neccessary and then make some foam into a box and weigh(another check for ratio. Now your ready to go! Equipment consists of a trash pump, air compressor, generator, two plastic tanks, two delivery pumps, and tank heaters.
Once you have good foam ready to go you can either inject into a wall cavity using a 5/8" hole and a additional vent hole or fill a cavity using a 2 1/2" hole midway up the wall and a 6 foot delivery tube at the gun. Push the tube into the wall and to the bottom, pull out as you fill. Reverse and push the tube to the top and repeat. Costs are considerably less for a 2 x 4 wall cavity and you can charge between $ 2-3 SF. Pay for installer is less $ 14-16 hr. My installer likes injection foam better than spray. This type of foam can be used to insulate wall that have fiberglass in them. The tube takes more force and time to get to the end of the cavity but the foam will compress the fiberglass and save the homeowner an additional 25% on his heating/cooling costs.

YES FOAM

mason

Posted: Sep 03, 2008 08:18 AM

Yes,

I have personally installed hundreds of cavity fill projects with SPF both pour in place and froth applications and also have installed a foam in the 70s that sounds very similar in the type of equipment, mixing and application. That foam left voids if you tried to inject it with fiberglass in the walls.

SPF would have similar characteristics of flow and expansion rates as this foam so I don't know how the foam you are promoting would be able to accomplish any different results.

I am not too old to learn however, can you provide some projects in my area (Northern Virginia) where this foam is being installed? I wouldn't mind visiting a few job sites and seeing if it performs as you stated.

Personal experience is best when using a new product.

Luke Kujacznski

Posted: Sep 03, 2008 11:01 AM

Mason,

The injection foam that YES is talking about is a great product, however like any product out there a lot of its performance is based on the knowledge and care of the installer. I have done jobs that have had infrared scans done after the foam was installed and on both projects we were more than 95% coverage. There are methods and tricks to ensureing complete coverage, something that can be gained only by experience.

Insulsmart is not a magic product, but if installed correctly it can really improve the performance of ones home.

Luke

Posted: Sep 04, 2008 10:12 PM

Tripolymer Foam based in white plains new york. 914-428-2517. injection foam at its best. great product. 5.1 R-value at 32 degrees. have injected into empty wall cavities such as a 1920 house this week. just a tad over 3 3/4" cavity. that is about a 19.1 r-value in the wall. before we were done the customer said it was way quieter inside. truck noise was way, way less. (rock quarry down the road)
the customer had the Tripolymer put in for the heating season, but is using A/C and can tell the difference. customer is also getting 8" more cellulose in the attic for a R-49. gonna save on the heat bill this winter!
done lots of fiberglass insulated home. r-10, r-11 where there is room to add Tripolymer. Injection rig is running way more than spray foam rig at present. Doing block jobs also. just did a block building. 12" concrete block job, single story sales office.
Tripolymer is a absolute standout for injection foam. C.P. chemical has been around for 40 years!
making Tripolymer for 33 years.
absolutely excellent product hands down.

You need to login to reply to this topic. Please click here to login.