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Jason Hartkopf Posted: Aug 12, 2008 07:49 AM	fire resistant paint/coating Any recommendations out there on what product to use for a fire resistant coating to satisfy the residential IBC code for flame spread? I've done some research, and found some good products (they seem pretty expensive, but would like to find somebody relatively local that makes this product. I am in the Midwest. Thanks for any imput.
Eric Smith Posted: Oct 07, 2008 11:47 PM	Drywall...just kidding. I have read some of that sprayed on fiberglass might work as well. I wouldn't risk it either way if were me.
Jason Hartkopf Posted: Oct 08, 2008 12:34 PM	I have seen that sprayed on fiberglass....looks like that might be an o.k. price point. I would like to have a product available for customers that want to foam their basement (new construction) but aren't ready to sheetrock, either because they don't want the added expense of electrical work right away, or because they want time to decide how to lay out the rooms. The paint applied coatings just add so much $$. What do you mean "wouldn't risk it either way if it were me"??
quentin Posted: Oct 08, 2008 04:39 PM	I tried calling two of those companies to get pricing and since neither could be bothered to return the calls like they promised I think I would avoid them. No support is a deal killer with me.
Eric Smith Posted: Oct 08, 2008 06:02 PM	I mean risk it from two standpoints. 1. That the code official would even approve it and not require you to cover it anyway 2. The flame spreads on those coatings are still not near as good as 3/8 drywall.
Trey Gibson Posted: Oct 09, 2008 08:55 AM	I know that Energywise foam has an approved thermal barrier paint for their foam. We applied it about a month ago and it worked out good. We will be doing a similar job next week in which we will use the foam and paint again.
Linerman Posted: Oct 09, 2008 08:55 PM	I think either SPI or VFI just came out with an approved fire barrier coating.
quentin Posted: Oct 17, 2008 04:12 PM	I jost got a call from a job that would require it and SPI has a proiduct that has passed the 15 min room corner test. Bit pricey at about $45 a gallon and 65sq foot of coverage but if they are willing to pay for it then I have no problems using it. Also it doesn't take anything special to apply and they use a Wagner power roller and a medium nap roller keeping that end cheap.
Posted: Oct 17, 2008 07:15 PM	I believe it has to pass the test on a sample of the specific foam you are using. It cannot be a general test as I understand it. In other words, just because it has been tested and passed on brand foam A, does not mean is have been approved for use on brand foam B. Tim
richard sucher II Posted: Oct 20, 2008 11:14 AM	Need to pay attention to testing procedures that are used to "pass" these tests Many pass the small scale test but not large scale test. Ask for ICC report from foam that you are using. Procede with caution when taking someone's word on fire rated products. Ask for documentation.
Eric Machemer Posted: Oct 20, 2008 03:55 PM	Has anyone out there actually used the spray on thermal barrier products? If so, what did you think? ie., ease of application, clean up, PPE required, etc. I'm not talking about the ignition barrier coating, but rather the full thermal barier.
richard sucher II Posted: Oct 21, 2008 02:39 PM	we have been installing "Ure-K" cellulose thermal barrier material for several years. International Cellulose is strengthening contractor base by requiring specific equipment and training. also, we have sprayed Grace's "Z3306" cememtitious thermal barrier material as well. Equipment and training for this type of material is not as monitored by manufacturer. 3306 is like structural fireproofing in its physical properties and application. "Ure-K" uses cellulose blowing machine spec'd by IC as well as pumps for glue. Training done in Houston. These are the tried and true as well as tested thermal barriers on the market.
Eric Machemer Posted: Oct 23, 2008 01:28 PM	Do you apply these products in residential attics and crawl spaces? We have used the URE-K product and it required extensive prep and clean-up. The product requires so much fluid in the mix that it dripped absolutly everywhere. In new construction it left a real mess. We have been spraying the lids of homes that are being lived in and have had dripping all the way down in the basement. Fluid proportions were right on the money to manufacturer specs, but there is just so much fluid. After spending 4 prep and clean up hours per 1 hour of spray time, we realized that this was just not working in these environments. This does not even take into account the new paint jobs we have had to pay for on customer's ceilings. Have you tried the Flame Seal or Fire Shell product?
Grady Littlehale Posted: Oct 23, 2008 05:07 PM	I have used the Fireshell product on quite a few applications. Its a latex based, so its not harmful to breathe. Follow manufactureres recommendations for applying it, tip size and spray equipment. Also check with your state fire marshall to see if it is allowed. I have been told(from the fire marshal) that my state(Maine) does not allow a spray applied thermal/ ignition barrier. Just because it is spray applied and has to be so many mils thick.
richard sucher II Posted: Oct 23, 2008 06:49 PM	strange as it may seem, we blow cellulose in the attics. R factor is the same and no issues. foam sidewalls and vaulted ceilings only. can imagine the ure-k mess as you have to have heavy adhesive rate to pass test. never thot of what you were trying to do. other product, z3306 equally as messy if not moreso as it is cement slurry. we did spray a product called Statex years ago - fumes out the butt and pricey. Have not seen any of these paints or coatings materials that meet large scale corner wall test for legit thermal barrier. State of Iowa wants large scale test - suspect that some unsuspecting code officials are hustled on some of these products. Not worth the exposure. Good luck.
Eric Machemer Posted: Oct 23, 2008 07:15 PM	Thanks for the response Cobb. Have you seen the Intertek test report on the Flame Seal product? The report's conclusion states that it "met the requirements of the UL 1715 Acceptance Criteria" for use as a thermal barrier as tested. Isn't this one of the tests stipulated in the code?
Eric Machemer Posted: Oct 23, 2008 07:22 PM	Dixfoam, Are you talking about a particular juristiction in ME or the entire state? I thought that the code allowed for alternative methods as long as they met one of the prescribed tests listed in the code. In Mass it is up to the individual code official to accept or deny. Also, what would be the cost for the product and a ballpark idea of what you could expect to be paid for it?
Grady Littlehale Posted: Oct 24, 2008 06:14 AM	FoamRun, The state fire marshal told me it wasnt allowed anywhere in the state. I have faxed the Intertek report for the Fireshell product to them, but they have not returned any e-mails or phonr calls. Cost is around $50 a gal but you will have to figure in the shipping also.
richard sucher II Posted: Oct 24, 2008 10:47 AM	since we apply either NCFI or BASF materials at the present time, have asked Roger Morrison @ NCFI for his comments on this latest development. Waiting for his response.
R Barone Posted: Nov 11, 2008 01:07 PM	Hey Cobb, I think the Fireshell product is the only one that directly complies with the IBC code over foam. The other co didn't use any lumber in their assembly. There's a link that might help on the TPR2 website that talks about NFPA286 IBC Logic. They have several products approved over foam, 1 for waterproof applications, 1 to meet IBC requirements on foamed wall assemblies. There's the link to the actual ETL full scale room test report(you might need to call TPR2 for the password) in their Fireshell F10E product page, and ignition barrier reports on their Fireshell F1E page. Hope it helps
Curtis Bell Posted: Nov 14, 2008 09:14 PM	Ive used FireFree 88, costly ($65/gal)but they give you a discount for being a foam contractor. Can apply it just like any other paint, except for humidty and temp become VERY important.
Cliff Haskins Posted: Mar 19, 2009 02:05 PM	Respectfully, BAYSEAL CC ™ 1.9lb Foam and FLAME SEAL TB™ recently obtained ICC certification as a qualified Foam and Thermal Barrier System. The ICC evaluation service report number is ESR-2072. For a copy of this certification or any other documentation please contact SPI at 1-800-627-0773 or Info@Specialty-Products.com.
Posted: Mar 21, 2009 07:46 AM	,,,and respectfully back,,, the manufacturer needs to state the limitations to "tested foams" only,,,,, they make a broad statement that,,well,,code officials in the know will laugh at you and ask you if you been breathin the fumes.... i am excited about this technology,,and if it tests on bayseal it will test on any other cc 2.0,,,,get it done,,,our industry needs a universally accepted single component thermal barrier,,,yesterday,,,
Darren Gomez Posted: Mar 30, 2009 11:38 PM	The best way in my opinion to determine what the best product is is to contact the foam manufacturer and see what product has been tested on their foam. Get ICC reports, etc,etc. Just remember iginiton barrier and 15 minute thermal barrier are 2 different things. I use Lopolla and they have a great companion product for ignition barriers. I also ran across another product called Thermal-Pruf that is a spray applied acoustical fiber application that purports to be a 15min thermal barrier

Author

Comments

Jason Hartkopf

Posted: Aug 12, 2008 07:49 AM

fire resistant paint/coating

Any recommendations out there on what product to use for a fire resistant coating to satisfy the residential IBC code for flame spread? I've done some research, and found some good products (they seem pretty expensive, but would like to find somebody relatively local that makes this product. I am in the Midwest. Thanks for any imput.

Eric Smith

Posted: Oct 07, 2008 11:47 PM

Drywall...just kidding.

I have read some of that sprayed on fiberglass might work as well. I wouldn't risk it either way if were me.

Jason Hartkopf

Posted: Oct 08, 2008 12:34 PM

I have seen that sprayed on fiberglass....looks like that might be an o.k. price point. I would like to have a product available for customers that want to foam their basement (new construction) but aren't ready to sheetrock, either because they don't want the added expense of electrical work right away, or because they want time to decide how to lay out the rooms. The paint applied coatings just add so much $$.

What do you mean "wouldn't risk it either way if it were me"??

quentin

Posted: Oct 08, 2008 04:39 PM

I tried calling two of those companies to get pricing and since neither could be bothered to return the calls like they promised I think I would avoid them. No support is a deal killer with me.

Eric Smith

Posted: Oct 08, 2008 06:02 PM

I mean risk it from two standpoints.

1. That the code official would even approve it and not require you to cover it anyway
2. The flame spreads on those coatings are still not near as good as 3/8 drywall.

Trey Gibson

Posted: Oct 09, 2008 08:55 AM

I know that Energywise foam has an approved thermal barrier paint for their foam. We applied it about a month ago and it worked out good. We will be doing a similar job next week in which we will use the foam and paint again.

Linerman

Posted: Oct 09, 2008 08:55 PM

I think either SPI or VFI just came out with an approved fire barrier coating.

quentin

Posted: Oct 17, 2008 04:12 PM

I jost got a call from a job that would require it and SPI has a proiduct that has passed the 15 min room corner test. Bit pricey at about $45 a gallon and 65sq foot of coverage but if they are willing to pay for it then I have no problems using it. Also it doesn't take anything special to apply and they use a Wagner power roller and a medium nap roller keeping that end cheap.

Posted: Oct 17, 2008 07:15 PM

I believe it has to pass the test on a sample of the specific foam you are using. It cannot be a general test as I understand it. In other words, just because it has been tested and passed on brand foam A, does not mean is have been approved for use on brand foam B.

Tim

richard sucher II

Posted: Oct 20, 2008 11:14 AM

Need to pay attention to testing procedures that are used to "pass" these tests Many pass the small scale test but not large scale test. Ask for ICC report from foam that you are using. Procede with caution when taking someone's word on fire rated products. Ask for documentation.

Eric Machemer

Posted: Oct 20, 2008 03:55 PM

Has anyone out there actually used the spray on thermal barrier products? If so, what did you think? ie., ease of application, clean up, PPE required, etc.

I'm not talking about the ignition barrier coating, but rather the full thermal barier.

richard sucher II

Posted: Oct 21, 2008 02:39 PM

we have been installing "Ure-K" cellulose thermal barrier material for several years. International Cellulose is strengthening contractor base by requiring specific equipment and training. also, we have sprayed Grace's "Z3306" cememtitious thermal barrier material as well. Equipment and training for this type of material is not as monitored by manufacturer. 3306 is like structural fireproofing in its physical properties and application. "Ure-K" uses cellulose blowing machine spec'd by IC as well as pumps for glue. Training done in Houston.
These are the tried and true as well as tested thermal barriers on the market.

Eric Machemer

Posted: Oct 23, 2008 01:28 PM

Do you apply these products in residential attics and crawl spaces? We have used the URE-K product and it required extensive prep and clean-up. The product requires so much fluid in the mix that it dripped absolutly everywhere. In new construction it left a real mess. We have been spraying the lids of homes that are being lived in and have had dripping all the way down in the basement. Fluid proportions were right on the money to manufacturer specs, but there is just so much fluid. After spending 4 prep and clean up hours per 1 hour of spray time, we realized that this was just not working in these environments. This does not even take into account the new paint jobs we have had to pay for on customer's ceilings. Have you tried the Flame Seal or Fire Shell product?

Grady Littlehale

Posted: Oct 23, 2008 05:07 PM

I have used the Fireshell product on quite a few applications. Its a latex based, so its not harmful to breathe. Follow manufactureres recommendations for applying it, tip size and spray equipment. Also check with your state fire marshall to see if it is allowed. I have been told(from the fire marshal) that my state(Maine) does not allow a spray applied thermal/ ignition barrier. Just because it is spray applied and has to be so many mils thick.

richard sucher II

Posted: Oct 23, 2008 06:49 PM

strange as it may seem, we blow cellulose in the attics. R factor is the same and no issues. foam sidewalls and vaulted ceilings only. can imagine the ure-k mess as you have to have heavy adhesive rate to pass test. never thot of what you were trying to do. other product, z3306 equally as messy if not moreso as it is cement slurry. we did spray a product called Statex years ago - fumes out the butt and pricey.

Have not seen any of these paints or coatings materials that meet large scale corner wall test for legit thermal barrier. State of Iowa wants large scale test - suspect that some unsuspecting code officials are hustled on some of these products. Not worth the exposure. Good luck.

Eric Machemer

Posted: Oct 23, 2008 07:15 PM

Thanks for the response Cobb.

Have you seen the Intertek test report on the Flame Seal product? The report's conclusion states that it "met the requirements of the UL 1715 Acceptance Criteria" for use as a thermal barrier as tested.

Isn't this one of the tests stipulated in the code?

Eric Machemer

Posted: Oct 23, 2008 07:22 PM

Dixfoam,

Are you talking about a particular juristiction in ME or the entire state? I thought that the code allowed for alternative methods as long as they met one of the prescribed tests listed in the code.

In Mass it is up to the individual code official to accept or deny.

Also, what would be the cost for the product and a ballpark idea of what you could expect to be paid for it?

Grady Littlehale

Posted: Oct 24, 2008 06:14 AM

FoamRun,

The state fire marshal told me it wasnt allowed anywhere in the state. I have faxed the Intertek report for the Fireshell product to them, but they have not returned any e-mails or phonr calls. Cost is around $50 a gal but you will have to figure in the shipping also.

richard sucher II

Posted: Oct 24, 2008 10:47 AM

since we apply either NCFI or BASF materials at the present time, have asked Roger Morrison @ NCFI for his comments on this latest development. Waiting for his response.

R Barone

Posted: Nov 11, 2008 01:07 PM

Hey Cobb,

I think the Fireshell product is the only one that directly complies with the IBC code over foam. The other co didn't use any lumber in their assembly. There's a link that might help on the TPR2 website that talks about NFPA286 IBC Logic.

They have several products approved over foam, 1 for waterproof applications, 1 to meet IBC requirements on foamed wall assemblies. There's the link to the actual ETL full scale room test report(you might need to call TPR2 for the password) in their Fireshell F10E product page, and ignition barrier reports on their Fireshell F1E page.

Hope it helps

Curtis Bell

Posted: Nov 14, 2008 09:14 PM

Ive used FireFree 88, costly ($65/gal)but they give you a discount for being a foam contractor. Can apply it just like any other paint, except for humidty and temp become VERY important.

Cliff Haskins

Posted: Mar 19, 2009 02:05 PM

Respectfully, BAYSEAL CC ™ 1.9lb Foam and FLAME SEAL TB™ recently obtained ICC certification as a qualified Foam and Thermal Barrier System. The ICC evaluation service report number is ESR-2072. For a copy of this certification or any other documentation please contact SPI at 1-800-627-0773 or Info@Specialty-Products.com.

Posted: Mar 21, 2009 07:46 AM

,,,and respectfully back,,,
the manufacturer needs to state the limitations to "tested foams" only,,,,,
they make a broad statement that,,well,,code officials in the know will laugh at you and ask you if you been breathin the fumes....

i am excited about this technology,,and if it tests on bayseal it will test on any other cc 2.0,,,,get it done,,,our industry needs a universally accepted single component thermal barrier,,,yesterday,,,

Darren Gomez

Posted: Mar 30, 2009 11:38 PM

The best way in my opinion to determine what the best product is is to contact the foam manufacturer and see what product has been tested on their foam. Get ICC reports, etc,etc.

Just remember iginiton barrier and 15 minute thermal barrier are 2 different things. I use Lopolla and they have a great companion product for ignition barriers. I also ran across another product called Thermal-Pruf that is a spray applied acoustical fiber application that purports to be a 15min thermal barrier

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