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Posted: Jul 08, 2006 08:28 PM	Fishy Foam? Has anyone else had batchs of foam that even months later customers are complaing of a fishy/ cat urine type of odor? Any successful solutions? I have a lot of homes including 3 very large ones that were sprayed with batchs from oct-dec 2005. I get no input or even attempted solutions from the manufacturer. The smell lingers and your clothes absorb it, so when you leave the house you stink. Yes we have tried airing the homes out, one since november has purposelly been left open windowed and unoccupied it has almost 20 sets in it.
Posted: Jul 08, 2006 08:57 PM	smells like fish???? (dont eat it....ancient chinease proverb :)~ ). serious,,,interesting...more info please,,, product type...ie density, reactivity, ambient conditions,depths, application technique(single or multiple pass...etc.. et al... this sounds like an interesting subject to kick about...
Posted: Jul 08, 2006 09:03 PM	do you have any fluid samples... do you have batch numbers and other data/specs??? (proper record keeping,,,another topic on another day...but for now,,,THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES). how long had you been spraying this suppliers foam? why dont they give you tech advice SPECIFIC TO THIS ISSUE they made their commission,, earn it... YOU NEED TO DEMAND ADVICE AND SUPPORT...REMIND THEM THAT IT WILL BE THEIR LIABILITY TOO...IM SURE THEIR POCKETS ARE DEEPER THAN YOURS...follow the money they say in law school... back on topic,,,i digress...sorry :) sprayed oct to dec - 05...what was the manufacture date of the resin drums. have you sprayed this batch/date before this is cold weather as far as foam is concerned...were you on ratio,,,even 150 or 200 off maybe??resin side slightly high maybe?? how did it spray compared to previous batches... what was its build charachteritics, skin characteristics and sprayability...did you spray overhead with good success... get multiple core samples of the foam...now...vacumne seal and store at fort knox...just kidding...about the fort... any takers...or thoughts... my imagination runs wild................
Posted: Jul 08, 2006 09:22 PM	I have had a very similiar experience. I used a different brand than I normally do. It was installed according to their recommendations, no problems with equipment. After we had a strong fish smell odor. NO help from supplier at all. The only way to remove the odor is to remove the bad foam completely. Even the smallest residue will cause odor. After it is all removed, it can resprayed to encapsulate any residue left. Expect HUGE amounts of time. Our job was 4500 b.f. (small job), it took 156 man hours to get it cleaned out, then the time to respray. I would be very interested in the specifics of your problems, you can email me or phone if interested.
Posted: Jul 09, 2006 11:08 AM	unfortunately it is a absolute nightmare. 3 of the homes are in the million dollar range, and like I said earlier one is around 8 1/2 set closed cell the other (bad memory) 15-20 sets closed cell and other smaller single familiy homes that are continually complaing to me and I give them UCSC number ,all they do is run around unitl you want to actually get off the phone. Absoultey not even an ounce of a posible suggestion of remedy, except time and air it out. The larger homes had every possible instance sprayed walls,cathdrals,overheads rim& sill.It was all 1.9 WWW and ambient temperature on those spray days were in the 50-65 degree range. We are extrmemly technical finicky guys when it comes to temperature and ratios. Ratios were all dead on and we had been spraying their stuff since July, we had been told their chemist was always working and experimenting the formulas to improve reactivity and in fact in the beginning the back side reactivity was extremely slow but was speed up and we had no issues until the oct batch and then forward. Of course they initially told us that this was the first of hearing about it. Now we have come to learn that they had instances of it as far back as July in alaska and i know there is another in texas somewhere. The alaska house they say was attic rafters sprayed and then the contractor sprayed kilz and then polureae to no avail. Final solution , they put a hole to the outside and installed a continous fan sucking out. Way to go for heat bills. I had air sampling done but they only tested for what is on the msds sheet primariliy iso things where their is osha limits. For 8 hour level they were elevated but within tolerance , but I have not transposed into 24 hr/7 levels. They manufacturer seems to want to find a viable answer to what caused the problem soley for their defense. The alaska house had 40% open cell structure. To me that means A: It's not closed cell foam and B: it's not r-7 per inch. So many cans of worms open. What to do ? I have no idea of where to begin to get estimates for removing it and yes the homes are dryealled and trimmed out. One home we are having the walls painted with AFM 90% prevent outgassing paint. The large garage had walls and overhead sprayed 3" walls , 5" overhead with no garage doors on until mid spring and even now with the windows open just walking by and y ou can smellit. Obviously it is still outgassing and I wonder if the cell struture is breaking down. The carbon dioxide levels showed to be 800- 1200 PPM without any occupancy and outside levels at 400 PPM.
Posted: Jul 09, 2006 11:26 AM	I have fluid samples and batch lot numbers. It was 1.9 WWW or WW. It was sprayed as soon as we got it and manufacturer dates were within perhaps 2 weeks of recieving it. A componet was different from previous batchs however. Ratios were right on and sprayed fine but the coverage did seem high but know I know it's because the cell structure was probaly 40% open. P.S> did I mention one of thses large homes is mine to boot. I got so many different stories relating to the alaska house they had problems on.I know they were working on the extreme cold weather formula and testing it in Alaska . I have a funny feeling we were guinea pigs without being told. The amine silicone surfactant and or type of catalyst is probaly the cause but I do not know. They also found many illegal since mid 80's stuff in the alaska house spray job, but once again the manufacturer may be using that to blame the sprayer say he mixed some old stuff in.
Posted: Jul 11, 2006 08:35 PM	A1...i understand your frustration and appreciate your posts...please continue to keep us informed as to this situation and how it is resolved... inquireing minds need to know.... TO ALL: i think we should make a consious effort to refrain from using specific manufacturer's names when posting,,,positive or negative...(hey,,of which i too am guilty of cause im an emotional twit...its all about the passion man,,it all about the passion) i remember another forum that ended up being a "my foams better than your foam" forum...with no real dialoge occuring after it turned into a foam-fight-fest..hell,,..you better think the foam your working with is the best or you should consider selling real estate... remember that when things get "rough" it is easy to get fired-up. ...in life & in business....it is ok to think the thoughts,,,to process the data,,to consider the possible outcomes...but once it becomes spoken word (and in our electronic age,written word too) it is now out there for all to consider and for all to process (acurately or inacurately)and real difficult to recind...it is hard to "eat ones words" the taste is not to sweet... remember,,this is a public forum...accessible by ALL not just your bothers-in-foam... inquireing minds....sometimes hear what they want to hear,,,sometimes they hear more than they need too.... ranting and rolling... 'dude peace
Posted: Jul 13, 2006 08:11 PM	a1insulate, Was there much of an odor right after spraying, or did it develope over time. I think some of the smell will pass with time. My truck smelled horrible from getting in it after working in the building, but now the smell is out of it. Until the source is gone the smell will linger. I opened a trash bag that I kept some samples in that we tore out of the job, and you could smell it ten feet away. Those samples were taken out 5-6 weeks ago.
Posted: Jul 13, 2006 08:48 PM	Don't quite remember back that far, it was sprayed Aprox 9months ago and still reeks. Obviously spray foam smells when you spray it but the smell is most noticable after leaving the job and then with a fresh nose coming back to smell it.Unfortunately I have waited quite some time to move in hopeing airing it out will make a difference but guess what nope. Also I recently recieved a sample of foam from an unmentioned company that has a reformulated 1.9 product and the 1.9 density compared to what I sprayed in is significantly different. I will need to have it tested for Real R-value. This one home was supposed to be a model for what we do as a company beside spray foam but thats a flop. The R-49 walls I thought I had are probally half that?
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Jul 27, 2006 10:46 AM	I've not encountered fishy foam. Ours has no smell after it is cured. olger
matthew banks Posted: Jan 29, 2007 08:30 PM	I've never smelled any fishy foam either, what chemicals were in the substrate that you sprayed the foam on. Something to check out maybe there was some type of chemical reaction there.
Eric Boyd Posted: Feb 01, 2007 05:06 PM	I have seen this before and you are probably right about it being the catalyst.Here is the theory,Sometime either in late 2004 or early 2005 apparently a new CHEAPER catalyst came on the market for the manufacturers to purchase.Untested very well they got it to make foam and put it into the field.Alot of the foam companys have tried it.I think also it causes shrinkage has any body else been noticing that?We recently recieved 3 sets of 1/2lb. from a manufacturer which had shrinkage issues the manufacturer said he did not know what the problem was but we could go into a consolidated set that we had purchased the week before and spray it with know problems.They are putting there new blends into the field and using the contractors as there testers.We are talking about peoples lively hoods and there reputations are on the line.The FOAM companies need to step up to the plate when they know it is there problem and When it is a major problem with one you need to post there name so the other contractors know how this company handles its business.
Barry Wallett Posted: Feb 01, 2007 05:27 PM	Hello A1insulate, Reading your post was horrible. I am interested in getting my (being built)home spray foamed, when researching this insulation I became interested in possibly doing this business in my area (Connecticut). To be in your situation, you having done everything right and having the chemical cause you this type of problem is horrific. I hope everything works out for you. Hopefully the manufacturer will step up to the plate and help you out of this bind. Could you please share with me the Brand of foam you used. I want to be sure not to use it on my home. Thank you Barry Wallett Willington CT
Steve Jacobs Posted: Nov 27, 2007 04:37 PM	Your fishy foam is directly related to the fact that your supplier is using a bio-polyol, most likely soy polyol. Some soy polyol blends have the odor that you are talking about.