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Kyle Wheeler Posted: Jun 19, 2009 02:58 PM	Fusion AP Help I am using the Fusion AP on a trial, spraying 2lb cc and cannot get a consistant pattern for more than a couple of cavities without stopping to drill out the tip. I have the heat set at 105 on the heaters and the hose with the pressure set at 1100 PSI. Also, I am using a 4747 tip (01). The outside tempature is around 72-80. I normally use the D-Gun but liked the idea of not having to take the gun apart after every use. I would like to stay with using the Fusion but am getting frustrated. I am having toubles even getting the drill to the full depth of the tip. There is also a lot of build up around the tip of the chamber as well. Any suggestions?
clint moore Posted: Jun 19, 2009 05:22 PM	Adjust the air needle on the top of the gun,if you are pointing away from you it is on the right,turn clockwise until it stops,then open one full turn,this should give you enough clean off air to keep the tip clean. no more than 1 1/4 turns. Also check the ports behind the cap(4)to make sure they are clear. If the gun is new you shouldn't have an O-ring issue. but,there is a black o-ring in the housing that the cap seals to put air into the cap. Check with your foam manufacturer rep. to see what recommended temps and pressures they suggest,sounds like you are low on both. Hope it helps.
Posted: Jun 19, 2009 06:54 PM	Definately sounds like an air issue to your gun.
Harry S Posted: Jun 22, 2009 01:06 PM	Maxx / Bayouboy I'm having the same problem as Rookie but also I'm getting E24's and when it cranks back up the gun has material blown back thru the gun causing me a teardown & cleaning. My temps are 125-127, outside temp is 86 & humid. Pressure gauges read 1100....Everything runs good until for whatever reason bang, E24. Get going again & gun is plugged. I've got 3 guns (brokedown) soaking in the crockpot of dynasolve and am using one of my vendors to finish a job this morning. Any suggestions? Harry
clint moore Posted: Jun 22, 2009 01:22 PM	Harris, On the inside of the gun block housing there is a o-ring that seals the air cap when triggered, If this o-ring is worn it will allow material to run back into the gun. Also check your side seals for scratches that material may be seeping back into gun. You can do a simple test to check if the inner o-ring on your check valve is leaking. With the safety on,air on,open one material valve and hold it against a substrait,the floor,a wall,Not your hand or leg. If chemical blows out of gun without triggering the inner o-ring is leaking. Do same with other side. If you are getting a E24 check the high pressure side on your gauges. high A check gun check valve A side,low A check inlet filter coming into machine. Feel free to call with any questions 888-920-1313.
Harry S Posted: Jun 22, 2009 02:11 PM	Thx Maxx....will call if I need more help.
thomas malloy Posted: Jun 24, 2009 03:13 PM	your mixing chamber is the problem you should run 52/52/02 never run a 01 when sprayinf closed cell
Dennis Schafer Posted: Nov 10, 2010 09:44 AM	But what if a person is spraying pipe. We spray well heads and have a real problem with the Fusion AP. If I were to use a 5252 chamber I would be spraying 80% into the air on a 3 inch line. We are using a 2929 chamber at present but it plugs up constantly at temperaturs set ranging from 110 to 120 and pressures at 1100 to 1800 with an E30. Does anyone else do this type of insulating? Do any of you pro's have any ideas on what we should be using?
quentin Posted: Nov 10, 2010 09:24 PM	Try the P2 instead then. I like the balance better, not a lot of maintenance needed on them.
Daniel X Posted: Nov 10, 2010 09:28 PM	Wow. How on earth did any of your folks get into this business without even having a simple mechanical understanding of how the gun itself works? Harris, how is it you have 3 guns and instead of cleaning one of them up, replacing whatever o-ring is leaking, cleaning your check-valve housing screens you are borrowing a gun...? Really, you do this for a living? You shouldn't be getting cross overs with the fusion gun, check your side seals for scratches, check the sides of the mixing chamber for scratches, check the side seal o-rings and side seal housing o-rings... If your gun is in proper working order, which anybody with one in their hand every day should be capable of maintaining... And you're clean out air is opened up a little bit... And you're STILL getting a gummy looking aircap, and having to use a drill bit all day long... YOU HAVE YOUR PRIMARY AND HOSE HEAT SET TO HIGH. I'm astounded that most of you have the luxury of using an E30 and getting an "e24" error, what would you do with an older machine that didn't shut itself off when you went off ratio? Keep spraying straight chemical onto the wall until someone on the internet told you what to do?
Dennis Schafer Posted: Nov 11, 2010 07:33 AM	Actually I was asked by a major oil company to get into this business as there is a demand for it. The company that I bought my equipment from is out of business and actually they were no dam help anyway. Believe it or not I learned most of the technical side of things from this board and all the good people that frequent it. I am not licensed for the housing industry and really don't plan on it, so you don't have to worry about my ignorance bleeding off into your business DL. I am only trying to figure out how to spray a small area without getting so much over-spray and wasting material. I will try a lower temp, which we have done in the past as well, but may have overlooked something. I would love to try that P2 Quentin and I may have to dish out anther $2500 bucks for it if I can't figure out these bloody fusion guns. Thanks for all your help up to now everyone.
steven argus Posted: Nov 11, 2010 09:29 AM	Wow. Don't let this guy bother you. His "better than all of us" attitude has no place on this forum. Mr. know it all porobably doesn't have very many friends and I'm sure nobody likes working with him. Keep asking the "stupid questions" not everyone thinks they're stupid. I to own 3 guns. We spray alot of foam and we find it easier to just keep swaping guns around. Our newest gun is the P2 elite- love it. Remember, if you can't play nice, don't play at all.
Dean Nash Posted: Nov 11, 2010 10:49 AM	Well put guiness- Rookie, maxx has said it best thus far and to add to that; try your best to minimize the frequency of dis assembly. We've got several rigs that we service around our shop and those with the least AP trouble are those that minimize the maintenance on the gun. maxx' comments regarding the "test" to perform will go a long way in preventing headaches. Furthermore, I'd also suggest that you up the temps-sounds real low for most closed cell foam. Here to help as well and keep the questions coming- the only stupid ones are the ones not asked.
steven argus Posted: Nov 11, 2010 11:16 AM	Sorry. I got so flustred with this guy's comments I forgot to try and help a brother out. "I would be spraying 80% into the air on a 3 inch line." NNSL, We spray pipes for out door boilers. The pipes that come up from the ground and into the boilers used to be a pain for us, we couldn't get to the backside of the pipe because the boiler was all ready set. We now use a card board concrete tube. (form) Cut it in half, line it with plastic 6 mil and put it behind the pipe to spray against. We can get really close, don't have any over spray and once we pull off the cardboard/plastic, the foam looks pretty sweet. Hope this helps. Remember people, we were all new once and none of us should stop learning.
Dennis Schafer Posted: Nov 11, 2010 12:53 PM	Sorry Rookie...I hope I didn't hijack your thread. Thank you Guiness, that is one hell of a good tip. I will definitely be giving that a try. That P2 gun is sounding sweeter all the time.
Daniel X Posted: Nov 11, 2010 02:32 PM	I guess you guys missed the important part of my post. Rookie7, make sure your gun is in good working order. Clean the mixing chamber well, to ensure you have good purge air. Make sure you're also getting good clean-out air while triggered. The MANUAL that comes with a Fusion gun, shows you every part and how it all goes together. Last of all, turn your HEAT DOWN. There is a sweet spot, if you're to cold you'll know it, if you're to hot, you'll know it. But also if you're just right, you wont need to clean your mixing chamber and air cap every 2 cavities unless you're spraying OVERHEAD. The answer to this problem is NOT to buy a different gun. It is to learn how to maintain the one you already have, and how to fine tune your material temperature.
Daniel X Posted: Nov 11, 2010 02:38 PM	Actually let me rephrase that. If you're actually getting a good spray pattern, but still getting a gummy tip, then turn your heat down. If you're shooting a small stream of chemical instead of SPRAYING (atomizing) a round pattern, then you're probably to cold. 105* is probably to cold.
steven argus Posted: Nov 11, 2010 05:36 PM	I guess you missed the important part of my post. YOU'RE BEING A RICHARD!! Stop belittling people. Obviosly you think you're Joe spray foam but you were a new guy once. Yes, I agree some people need to get a clue. (myself included) But if you continue laying into everbody, everybody will be afraid to ask questions. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that you need to lighten up.
SPFer Posted: Nov 12, 2010 06:05 AM	Good work Guiness. Dl123 poops roses and farts cologne. He is the Justin Timberlake of the spray foam industry. If only we could have 1/8 of his knowledge and common sense we would all be twice as smart as we are.
Daniel X Posted: Nov 13, 2010 10:57 AM	At the very least you wouldn't have $6000+ worth of guns and parts, and still have to borrow a gun to finish a job. The fusion gun is a very simple gun to operate, anybody who suggests the P2 would be a better alternative needs to understand something... If one cannot grasp the simple mechanics of a fusion, they have no business trying to learn how to maintain another gun until they can use a fusion day-in-day-out without 3rd party help. Excuse me for expecting folks to have the skills required to do a professional job... I guess the rest of you don't mind when other contractors give spray foam a bad name by spraying OFF RATIO gunk all over and not knowing their own equipment.
quentin Posted: Nov 13, 2010 02:40 PM	Maybe YOU are not getting the point and to not mind that people spray gunk all day. All the training and knowlege in the world won't mean you get something wrong at times and could use help. It may not be the gun, it could be the foam, the machine or a number of things. It could even be the style they spray as I found my style works great with some combinations of things and not others but the style I have seen others spray just makes crappy foam if i try it that way. so jump off the high horse, get a life outside of being a jerk and think that maybe by helping a foamer get it right and what will work for THEM so they can do a better job so they don't give it a bad name we will ALL benifit. Also remember that non-contractors also look at this site and YOUR customers may see your posts and decide to stay away from you since it is obvious if you have a problem you won't give two squats to try and figure it out if you can't on your own and will do a crap job instead to leave them in the dirt with that attitude.
steven argus Posted: Nov 13, 2010 06:09 PM	dl123, it's not what your saying, it's how you're saying it. As a matter of fact, I agree with just about everything you say. You're just being a real tool. You just don't get it and you probably never will. We have $6000 worth of guns because we used to run two guns out of the same rig at once. We have just upgraded our gear and decided to add the new gun as well. Not new still learning, stick with the Fusion, it's a good gun. Read and understand the manual. Find a good distributor who will support you and supply you with parts. I highly recommend Spray Foam Distributors of New Engalnd. George has never let us down. All $6000 worth of our guns were bought from George.
Posted: Nov 14, 2010 09:46 AM	Hey DL I run 4 fusion ap's out of my rig. I keep and 01, 02, 03 and 04 chamber ready to go at all times. Typical day, I spray 3-5 sets in 4-5 hours. Depending upon outside temps during the day, I may move from an 04 back to an 03 to keep a pattern and spray a smooth flat roof without any fingers. I don't have time to walk down 4 stories to go to my rig to break down a gun to change chambers while spraying or once I have a leak in my side seals and have a small mist coming out of my chamber of either a or b when the trigger is not pulled. I do agree 100% about some of the contractors out there not knowing what they are doing and spraying off ratio. One of the biggest problems that I see in the roofing industry is light lifts less than 1/2" causing blisters, off ratio foam pulling up and just a pitiful attention to details by some of these guys. I can tell you that if SPFA, Chemical Design or BASF gets up on one of my roofs for an inspection, they will fail you every time for failure to clean up overspray no matter how minimal it may be. Blisters are a given, I can walk on any roof and find one if it is there. Now, with all of that said, I didn't become a very good roofer over night. I asked a lot of stupid questions on this board and had a lot of help from regulars who didn't have to help me out at all. Most of the time when asking a question, I knew what I was talking about, but didn't know the correct terminology. I can see where an outsider that didn't know me would say to themselves, "What the heck is he doing in this business?" The way that I see it, is that if a competitor has a breakdown, I don't have to go out of my way to help them get running unless I want to. That is their problem and its part of this business. However, I do have a responsibility to make sure that they are doing the job right to begin with. Every time there is a job that is off ratio or a blistered roof or I see yellow exposed foam on a roof from a 1000 feet away, I feel like it is my responsibility to let them know they are screwing this up for all of the rest of us. One shotty job from a foam roofer can cause millions in lost sales from that customer alone. Once an architect has a problem on a roof with any type of roofing system, it is very difficult to get them to change their minds. We owe it to ourselves to protect our industry no matter what the cost. Even if that means that by telling a contractor he is screwing up out there, he may want to take the conversation outside. This is our industry, we need to make sure the guys who are in it know what they are doing and do the job right. If they are too cheap and cause you to lose money all of the time, then chances are they won't be around long anyway. We just need to make sure that while they are going broke that they don't screw it up for the rest of us. Thats my soap box for the day!
Daniel X Posted: Nov 14, 2010 01:48 PM	That is great that you have a bunch of guns up on the roof with you. That wasn't my point though, because I know if you have a problem with one of them, you swap them out and you FIX the problem later on. Spraying roofing foam is a different game, I would expect to dirty up a gun or two every day if I was putting on multiple sets in a day. I guess all of you are still upset about how I presented my argument, and that is fine, but I also offered advice for solving the problems folks were having too. Take this as a lesson in life, you're not always going to like what everyone has to say, sometimes you have to just let it go.
quentin Posted: Nov 15, 2010 08:18 AM	dl123, helping is what we are all here for and to help eachother. If you are helping then great and cudos! Your last few posts have been very good. It is just insulting someone that was the issue. I know sometimes we are all fustrated and etc but just try to remember that everyone has an issue at times that is baffling them and knowing your equipment is important but you run in to things that just are not what you expect and know with all the things you try failing. I know I also do a lot of experimenting and right now am playing around with a coating on my P2 that seems promising to make cleanup a LOT easier. If it works, then the info will be passed to those here with the possible option of my doing it for others on the side for cheap more to help than to make a bunch of money. Same with a tool that is presently being prototyped. No matter what though, we can all learn new things and sometimes people have an idea that you just don't think of for whatever reason. PS, ask Dude how nuts I drove him and the others on this board when I was a neewbie trying to learn before I even pulled a trigger. Drove them all nuts and am sure I still do at times! They were all very helpful in my starting my business and even those that I actually compete with were and still are with only once I can think of someone having a bad attitude about my questions so just please keep in mind about presenting a good and professional appearence and helping without insulting. Thanks!
steven argus Posted: Nov 15, 2010 09:48 AM	I belive fomedude prefers "Dude" to be spelled "dude" (lower case "d") Or maybe he is now wearing a suit and tie everyday w/ his new position. LOL- just kidding!!
Daniel X Posted: Nov 15, 2010 06:57 PM	Personally I don't worry about how clean the OUTSIDE of my gun is, I work with a guy who spends (wastes) 20 minutes a day cleaning foam from the outside of his gun... an hour later it's dirty again. But when spraying overhead, I will take a stiff brush to the gun and spray some pam on it prior to the work commencing. I wouldn't go using anything petroleum based though. I do put some of that grease that comes with the fusion gun on my air cap when I clean it off though, it helps for a bit. (Not the quick shot stuff, the other grease lubricant that comes in a toothpaste style tube, I think its lithium based)
quentin Posted: Nov 16, 2010 08:51 AM	The white grease is plain white lithium. I use it too for keeping it off some areas. You can save a bundle just picking it up at the local NAPA. Just make sure it is white lithium instead of general purpose lithium. Also it is easier to keep it in a full sized grease gun since you have a good bit right there to use and no need to keep a seperate tube of it.
Bigmt78 Posted: Apr 06, 2016 07:30 PM	Why am I getting 2 half moon pattern?? I am using a R30,2 reactor. I'm at 1400 psi all temps at 128-135. I had a 5252 chamber then I went to the 4242. I have never had this problem before. Icynene closed cell.
joelando Posted: Sep 29, 2016 02:43 AM	no answers from me...only questions.....i have constant air coming out of the muffler after rbuilding and changing all orings any suggestions.....another thing the front air port isnt passing any air....this is after a 10 hour soak in dynosolve over 3 days...this port doesnt go through to the trigger chamber and i'm really not sure where it lets out.....does it connect to the middle air port....and what lse can i do to clean it out....i got about 8 sets to spray over the next two weeks...and need a back up gun....some please help me any body help me can somebody help me....a lot of great info on this forum though i'll be reading up on thing a lot thaks to everyone
Rodger Posted: Sep 30, 2016 08:43 PM	Joe, Remove the plug or air connection from your gun and take out the valve spool. Inspect the valve spool to make sure that the o-rings are in good shape. Also check that there is no material in the spool that is restricting the air flow. Once you have all that checked reassemble the gun. Remove the fluid section from the gun, remove the back safety cap and take out the air cylinder out, connect your air and trigger the gun. You will see 2 small ports in the gun cylinder, when you trigger the gun air should come out of the back hole, when you release it air comes out the front hole. At the front of the gun where the mixing chamber would attach to the air cylinder there is another hole, this is your clean off air, this should be constant, less when you pull the trigger, more when you let off. If you do not have a handle clean out kit, get one. these ports can be cleaned out by accessing them through the bottom of the handle where the muffler and plug are as well as through the top ports. Be aware that the ports in the cylinder taper to a smaller size. 888-920-1313
Artiefoam Experienced Posted: Apr 28, 2019 07:06 AM	It's usually the front air hole plugged causing loss of air and pattern issues if it not the mix chamber or side ports. The hole is tricky and curves. You need to drill it out from top and through the handle in the bottom, then push a piece of bailing wire through and see if it comes out clearly and easily where the trigger cylinder goes. Tip the hole is tapered and curved, so curve, bend your bailing wire a bit
Artiefoam Experienced Posted: Apr 28, 2019 07:10 AM	Could also be fluid injection ports in the head, pull the check valves, spray them off with b12 and see it you can get a clean out bit through both injectors cleaning and easily. Might have to pull both side seal to get a good look. Other than that mix chamber and both side ports need to be cleaned and greased as well.