Q&A Forums
ICC-ES (ESR Report) Post New Topic | Post Reply
| Author | Comments |
|---|---|
|
Mark Mouton
Posted: Dec 12, 2012 06:54 PM
|
ICC-ES (ESR Report)
I've been looking at different ESR reports for different sprayfoams and was wondering what specific criteria should I look for in a 1/2 lb. or a 2 lb. that would set one foam apart from another foam?Another question, on a blower door test, before sheetrock,new construction, of a house sprayed with 1/2. or 2 lb. foam with the attic being sealed(unvented), how many air changes per hour should the range be? |
|
mark moyer
Posted: Dec 17, 2012 08:14 AM
|
icc-es report show the material supplier has done the testing on the product and outlines application paramaters of the product. in todays world of froth pak applicators doing sidewalls,,,electricans and daycarecenters doing sidewalls,,,screwit goatman,,,spray the cheapestassed foam you can get your hands on for the most money you can make,,,you dont need paper,,icc-es or otherwise,,i used to believe otherwise,,it dont friggin matter,,the work will get done whie your reading the print...by someone else,,,find foam that works,,for cheap and spray it,,for cheap...god bless but they do help sell a commercial job.... re: blower door...pre drywall...this is a subjective thing here goatman,,,each house is so different cause of the different stage of construction and the ability to seal em up to test...but we just seal up the house penetrations,,put the fan on,,get out the smokers and go lookin for leaks we can stop... is good to help evaluate your primary foam installlation as well,,,and the applicators really enjoy "smokeing their work" to see if they got it right... now then,,,you will see finished blower door studies all over the place,,again,,a subjective analysis of objective data??? god i hope i got that right??cause each house is different...duh but after a few you start to get a feel on how to "interpet the data"... dpo construction calls and tells me that we had 0.7 ach on our most recent build...passive haus shoots for 0.6 ach,,, frame it,,,foam-it,,,F-it,,,advanced frameing technique...1"brd stock,,7/16osb,,,2x4 frame..3"CCfoam,,, this builder was a big sips dude,,till we really looked a the $$#'s,,and more importantly..till we looked at the performance #'s rvalue for $rvalue...and installed cost,,other trades upgrade for install with sips... frame it,,foam-it,,,F-it... enjoy your week goatman,,, and it foamed me right to my soul foamed me just like a jellyroll and it foamed me |
|
mason
Posted: Dec 19, 2012 11:49 AM
|
The sweet spot for natural air exchanges per hour on a home is .35 air exchanges per hour. As for the ICC ES reports. The report tells you under what conditions you can use the foam without a prescriptive thermal or ignition barrier and the R value of the material at specific thickness. If you cover the foam with a thermal barrier as listed in the building codes (or an ignition barrier as listed in the codes for attics and crawl spaces), an ICC ES report is not required so long as the foam is rated 75 flame spread or less and 450 smoke developed rating or less in accordance with ASTM E 84. But if you are using a thermal or ignition barrier that is not listed in the codes, then the ICC ES report will tell you what specific coatings can be used in place of the prescriptive thermal or ignition barriers and where. |
|
mark moyer
Posted: Dec 20, 2012 05:20 AM
|
mason...where did you find .35ach/50 for everyday build homes...the "sweet spot" or target...would be a good sales doc,,build tight and ventilate right!!! i see the number referenced for "very tight homes" but not even close to that number referenced for mainstream daily builders... now i see joe references R60 sides and r100 roofs with .30ach/50,,but man,,,that aint mainstream buildin,,, |
|
mason
Posted: Dec 20, 2012 03:34 PM
|
That number has been around for decades, I first saw it referenced at the NIST/BETEC seminars in the mid 90s and it is also referenced at Oakridge National Labs website on building envelope. By the way, my house was sprayed in March and the blower door results showed an air exchange of .35, the sweet spot |
|
mark moyer
Posted: Dec 21, 2012 04:32 AM
|
damn thats one tight house you got our best is 255cfm@50,,,,blower door.. could we be talking a different rating number??? help me ole wise one.... but thinkin about it cfm to ach should be just a mathematical computation,,,or sumpin,,, good reading http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-change-rate-room-d_867.html http://www.floridaenergy.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/FESC_Home_Energy_Analysis_final_7-27-10.pdf http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-053-just-right-and-airtight/?searchterm=blower door now i see air permience ratings down around 0.2@75pascals but this is not the air exchange/loss measured @50pascal via blower door,,cfm,,,could we be speaking different values??? different studies... twin sons of different mothers??? |
|
Mark Mouton
Posted: Dec 21, 2012 07:08 AM
|
I appreciate the info. I didn't understand PRESCRIPTIVE thermal or ignition barrier, but I believe it is what code requirements specify, then anything else is non-prescriptive, such as an intumescent coating. One more question if I could, would you name or point me to Prescriptive items in the code? Also, sounds like your house is easy to heat and cool! |
|
mark moyer
Posted: Dec 21, 2012 04:06 PM
|
mason .35ach is natural air changes per hour not pressurized blower door that is indeed the sweet spot for natural air exchanges... now would you care to post up a copy of the blower door study showin .35cfm@50pascals... jeez i bet your homes got a heers rating of 2... take natural ach x20 for a real close to cfm@50 number,,,and in this case... 0.7,,,darned tight.. jingle jingle |
|
mason
Posted: Dec 22, 2012 11:05 AM
|
Codes specifically list 1/2 drywall, 1 inch of masonry, brick or concrete as thermal barriers and any material that passes the E 119 test (for thermal barriers). Ignition barriers include 1.5 inches mineral fiber (rockwool or fiberglass unfaced) 3/8 inches drywall 1/4 inch wood paneling .16 inch thick metal The codes don't list a specific test for ignition barriers, however ICC Evaluation Services describes an ignition barrier test in AC 377 for sprayfoam applications. Hope that helps |
|
mason
Posted: Dec 22, 2012 11:10 AM
|
Foamdude, this came from my blower door report Your home’s Air Changes Per Hour is ~ 6 ACH50 which is ~15% better than the 2009 Energy Codes. The 2009 IECC code limit is 7 ACH50 which also translates into .35 ACH natural. At this tightness limit, we recommend mechanical ventilation. If your home goes below 3.5 ACH50, mechanical ventilation is required. Mechanical ventilation ensures fresh air and directly relates to comfort and IAQ. |
|
mason
Posted: Dec 24, 2012 11:58 AM
|
Foamdude, I see where your confusion is. I reported in my first response that the sweet spot is 0.35 natural air exchanges per hour. I see after reading your posts that you missed the "natural air exchanges" and assumed it was 0.35 air exchanges at 50 pascals of pressure. I didn't notice you listing the air exchanges at the blower door pressures. That is why I copy and pasted the last response from my report which showed the measured air exchanges at 6 per hour at 50 pascals which translated out to just around 0.3 per hour natural air exchanges. We added a little more ventilation to reach the sweet spot. Hope that unconfuses the posts |
|
mark moyer
Posted: Dec 25, 2012 05:48 AM
|
mason perciate it man,,you da man,,, yes indeed...that was it,, just needed to clarify for the huddled masses and the dazed and cornfused like me... merrriest of merries my brother!!! and to every one else as well... |
