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quentin Posted: Feb 24, 2009 08:05 AM	Initial or aged R-value selling? Which are you telling the customers when you talk to them? Recent quote on a new construction job and the guy called me back with a few questions. One bid was for $7200 for a huge house and they also were including doing blown in cellulose for the attic. Only real difference was that and one inch plus fiberglass in a small room over the garage while we bid 3 inches. All the work was closed cell. We did some big cutting that would get a decent profit and were at $10,000. Looking at the material costs for the foam alone the bid of $7200 would barely cover material costs for the three sets of closed cell we figured it would take plus the blown in then would need and figure they would have a two hour drive from Columbus Ohio to this location. We couldn't figure how they could do this and flat told him if they could do it for that then go for it. He also pointed out their foam was an R-6.9 per inch in their handouts. Suddenly it started to make sense then. A bit of research shows the manufacture was stating R-6 on thier site so let him know. They are a big company and we finally figured how they were under cutting all the other bids the guy got, and I sent him the papers on their foam from the manufacture to show him. So that then had me wondering how many others are bidding based on initial R-values instead of aged values? We do aged because I feel it is more honest but that is a personal belief. Ideas and is everyone else bidding and stating initial values menaing we are screwing ourselves on bidding then or are these guys out of line with the rest of the industry?
SPFer Posted: Feb 24, 2009 08:18 AM	As far as the R-value goes, I sell the aged R-value. That is because that is what my rep sells it as. I never really thought about it. I have seen some foam insane quotes in this area as well. Barely over foam cost. I am not sure if companies are willing to work for nothing just to keep their rigs spraying, if estimators are making mistakes or if the homeowner is pulling my leg about the estimates they are getting. I would, however, ask to see the written estimate to "make sure you are comparing apples to apples". Alot of people out there, especially GC's, lie about other bids to see how far down you will come. One time a GC told me he had a lower bid than mine and if I came down $2,000 on a $24,000 project, it was mine. I refused, several times. He gave me the project anyway.
Posted: Feb 24, 2009 02:12 PM	GC's don't lie, Republicans cut spending, Checks in the mail and my all time favorite, "Honey, it was on sale". On a more serious note, sometimes I don't think that the customer cares. Very rarely am I ever quoting apples to apples from one bid to the other. I'm amazed at the guidelines that the customer requires only to see another bid get the job at a cheaper rate that doesn't even give the customer what they are asking for. I'll often ask the customer why they are letting the other bidder go with a minimum 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches or 4.5 inches instead of 5 that they requested and the answer is usually the same...money!
quentin Posted: Feb 24, 2009 02:39 PM	This one is the homeowner instead of a GC and I have explained a few things to him to educate him better. I already know I offer a good price and not the cheapest or the highest but enough to pay the bills since I will not lose money to this type of BS. Not sure what he plans yet but he now knows they are talking initial value instead of aged like me. Idiots like that just hurt the entire industry with this kind of crap. Told the guy strait out, if someone can do it cheaper for the same work and everything he requested, then have at it because we can't come down any lower.

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quentin

Posted: Feb 24, 2009 08:05 AM

Initial or aged R-value selling?

Which are you telling the customers when you talk to them? Recent quote on a new construction job and the guy called me back with a few questions. One bid was for $7200 for a huge house and they also were including doing blown in cellulose for the attic. Only real difference was that and one inch plus fiberglass in a small room over the garage while we bid 3 inches. All the work was closed cell.

We did some big cutting that would get a decent profit and were at $10,000. Looking at the material costs for the foam alone the bid of $7200 would barely cover material costs for the three sets of closed cell we figured it would take plus the blown in then would need and figure they would have a two hour drive from Columbus Ohio to this location. We couldn't figure how they could do this and flat told him if they could do it for that then go for it.

He also pointed out their foam was an R-6.9 per inch in their handouts. Suddenly it started to make sense then. A bit of research shows the manufacture was stating R-6 on thier site so let him know. They are a big company and we finally figured how they were under cutting all the other bids the guy got, and I sent him the papers on their foam from the manufacture to show him. So that then had me wondering how many others are bidding based on initial R-values instead of aged values? We do aged because I feel it is more honest but that is a personal belief.

Ideas and is everyone else bidding and stating initial values menaing we are screwing ourselves on bidding then or are these guys out of line with the rest of the industry?

SPFer

Posted: Feb 24, 2009 08:18 AM

As far as the R-value goes, I sell the aged R-value. That is because that is what my rep sells it as. I never really thought about it.

I have seen some foam insane quotes in this area as well. Barely over foam cost. I am not sure if companies are willing to work for nothing just to keep their rigs spraying, if estimators are making mistakes or if the homeowner is pulling my leg about the estimates they are getting. I would, however, ask to see the written estimate to "make sure you are comparing apples to apples". Alot of people out there, especially GC's, lie about other bids to see how far down you will come.

One time a GC told me he had a lower bid than mine and if I came down $2,000 on a $24,000 project, it was mine. I refused, several times. He gave me the project anyway.

Posted: Feb 24, 2009 02:12 PM

GC's don't lie, Republicans cut spending, Checks in the mail and my all time favorite, "Honey, it was on sale".

On a more serious note, sometimes I don't think that the customer cares. Very rarely am I ever quoting apples to apples from one bid to the other.

I'm amazed at the guidelines that the customer requires only to see another bid get the job at a cheaper rate that doesn't even give the customer what they are asking for.

I'll often ask the customer why they are letting the other bidder go with a minimum 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches or 4.5 inches instead of 5 that they requested and the answer is usually the same...money!

quentin

Posted: Feb 24, 2009 02:39 PM

This one is the homeowner instead of a GC and I have explained a few things to him to educate him better. I already know I offer a good price and not the cheapest or the highest but enough to pay the bills since I will not lose money to this type of BS. Not sure what he plans yet but he now knows they are talking initial value instead of aged like me. Idiots like that just hurt the entire industry with this kind of crap.

Told the guy strait out, if someone can do it cheaper for the same work and everything he requested, then have at it because we can't come down any lower.

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