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Craig Maturi Posted: Aug 26, 2007 06:53 PM	Need help with E-20! i am having problems with my E20 and error code e24 pressure imbalance. when i turn my pump on it tries to come up to pressure and errors out. i will bleed off resin side about 200lbs to equalize pressure and hit ON again, it will pump and get a pressure imbalance again. i have to repeat this 4-5 times for it to get to working pressure but even then my resin hold a higher pressure than iso side, about 200lbs. i bleed it off to equal and start spraying again and i get a pressur difference again but with no code. WHAT IS GOING ON!!! it runs all day with this imbalace of 200lbs once i get it going. please help. can i call any of you for help with this?
Tim O'Keefe Posted: Aug 26, 2007 07:10 PM	I am not sure exactly what your problem is, but I would highly advise against continuing to knowingly spray off ratio until you have the problem solved. Continuing to do so will only cause you more problems down the road. Have you checked the filters between the supply lines of the drum pumps and the E-20? There is a "Y" valve that contains a filter which could be plugged with some crystalized ISO. Is your relief valve for your recirculation line closing all the way and not leaking? Do you have any ISO leaks anywhere? Are your throat cups clean and lubricated and not leaking any residual ISO? Does it make any difference if your heaters are on or off? Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Aug 26, 2007 07:38 PM	If your machine is getting a pressure imbalance on startup, I would say that you have a supply issue. Good call Tim on checking the filters entering the machine. Which pressure gauge is low? Check that filter. You can call me if you like. George 603.348.8880
Craig Maturi Posted: Aug 26, 2007 09:08 PM	yes i have checked all filters. everything is clean and no leaks. i don't know what is going on. any other ideas?
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Aug 26, 2007 10:14 PM	Let's start from the beginning. Relieve all of the pressure from the system, both pressure gauges on the front of the machine @ 0 psi. You then turn the air to your drum pumps on to give you about 100-200lbs of pressure in the system on both the A and the B side. Please listen to hear both the A and the B drum pumps pump the same # of strokes. Then you turn the pressure up on the E-20. You are getting a pressure imbalance before triggering the gun? How high do the pressures get before getting the e-24? It sounds like you have a drum pump issue, dirty filter, blocked supply hose, faulty proportioner pump, or faulty pump motor. You should have recirculation lines connected to the front of your e-20. With pressure off on the e-20, open both valves on the front of the e-20. View the volume of material coming out of the recirc lines on the A and B side. If both are equal, and pump the same (actually, the a should pump faster than the B) then it is the e-20, if there is less material coming out one hose, then it is the drum pump. I'm up @ 6am if you need to talk. Geo
Craig Maturi Posted: Aug 27, 2007 05:39 AM	do you have phone # i could call and talk to you about this problem Geo?
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Aug 27, 2007 06:01 AM	6033488880
Kelly Nunberg Posted: Aug 27, 2007 01:02 PM	R U getting an E24 everytime or just once, 200psi is not that big of a difference, can be caused by the viscosity difference between the A and the B.
Craig Maturi Posted: Aug 27, 2007 04:45 PM	always goes back to about a 200lb difference after i try to balance it. gonna rebuild stick pump and try that.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Aug 27, 2007 05:03 PM	I'm not too familiar with the E-20, are the fluid sections separate or are they opposed? If the machine is s-l-o-w-l-y cycling the fluid section (creeping) that normally indicates internal weepage on the low side (in this case, the ISO pump). Look for any scoring on the cylinder wall of the ISO pump AND resulting disfigurement of the ISO packings. This allows fliud to "bypass" internally and the other side gains pressure as this happens. Just a thought, but if the filters are clean this is where I would look. You might also have slight blockage where the whip hose joins the gun-this is very rare on the resin side. If the ISO side was 200 higher that would be a possiblity on the A-side. Best of luck, I know these things can be frustrating, but figuring it out makes you feel better. olger
Michael Flander Posted: Aug 28, 2007 09:10 AM	Alright, I'm sure you have it fixed by now, but remember that the analog guages claim to be accurate to WITHIN 5%. So you have to allow for that right off the bat. You can test the displacement pumps rather easily with a stall test. Bring the machine up to its maximum pressure(2000psi on an E-20), and watch which stroke the b side pump stops in(for this example lets say it stopped moving in the up stroke). When it stops, turn the machine off, and let it sit for 3-5 minutes. If it holds pressure in that stroke, flip it over to the other stroke by turning the machine back on, and cracking the relief valve slowly until the pump gets to its down stroke. Turn the machine back off and see if the it holds pressure. If the machine holds pressure on both strokes, the packings in the pump are fine. If it does not hold pressure during any part of that test, give me a call with the specifics and I will be glad to help. It is not all that uncommon for the E-Series reactors to come up to pressure the way you described. The only thing that matters is what it does in the trigger on situation. If you are spraying 200 lbs off all day long and it does not get worse, A transfer pump problem is unlikely. It was mentioned above that it could be a viscosity difference, or a clog downstream, or even something clogged or restricted in the gun(like the side orifices of the mix chamber). Generally if you have a transfer pump problem, you would not be able to spray with any consistency, meaning the fact that it is staying at 200 lbs off and not blipping or getting worse or better while your spraying means the transfer pump is keeping steady pressure on the machine. 'Ger was also right on with the whip hose to gun manifold connection. While you are checking the gun over, that is also a good spot to check. But just remember, since it is consistent, it is most likely a clog or restriction downstream somewhere. Or if it has been doing it from the start, it could also be a viscosity difference. Try raising the temp on the side that stays at a higher pressure, and lower the temp of the side that stays at a lower pressure. If you have questions, call me. My 2 cents, Mike Flander Endisys - 763-428-5075
Gerard G Posted: Jul 29, 2015 05:34 PM	One way to test transfer pumps is to open valves allowing "A" and "B" to recirculate back to the drums. Supply only air to the pumps allowing them to pump by themselves, no help from proportioner. Listen for the pumps as the "A" pump will make one stroke and then the "B" pump will make one stroke. Let them cycle like this for a couple of minutes and keep a close eye and ear on them. If one of the pumps strokes 2 times before the other one you have a sticking pump, usually the iso "A" side. I forget who told me this years ago but it always has worked for me. I would disconnect air motor, slip shaft with packings out of pump and run a fine pick around edge of packings and clean anywhere else that iso has crystalized. Clean stainless ball and cylinder that packing pass through. Grease everything and put back together. This should get you back up and running quickly. Do not damage packings, ball or any part of pump for that matter by using bench brinder with wire wheel or any other ruff and abrupt method of trying to get iso off. I always try to treat my equipment like it is C4 and one wrong bull in a china cabinet move and I am dead in the water. "Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you" Not saying you dont care for your unit but you get my point.

Author

Comments

Craig Maturi

Posted: Aug 26, 2007 06:53 PM

Need help with E-20!

i am having problems with my E20 and error code e24 pressure imbalance. when i turn my pump on it tries to come up to pressure and errors out. i will bleed off resin side about 200lbs to equalize pressure and hit ON again, it will pump and get a pressure imbalance again. i have to repeat this 4-5 times for it to get to working pressure but even then my resin hold a higher pressure than iso side, about 200lbs. i bleed it off to equal and start spraying again and i get a pressur difference again but with no code. WHAT IS GOING ON!!! it runs all day with this imbalace of 200lbs once i get it going. please help. can i call any of you for help with this?

Tim O'Keefe

Posted: Aug 26, 2007 07:10 PM

I am not sure exactly what your problem is, but I would highly advise against continuing to knowingly spray off ratio until you have the problem solved. Continuing to do so will only cause you more problems down the road.

Have you checked the filters between the supply lines of the drum pumps and the E-20? There is a "Y" valve that contains a filter which could be plugged with some crystalized ISO. Is your relief valve for your recirculation line closing all the way and not leaking? Do you have any ISO leaks anywhere? Are your throat cups clean and lubricated and not leaking any residual ISO? Does it make any difference if your heaters are on or off?

Tim
Granite State Spray Foam Co.

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Aug 26, 2007 07:38 PM

If your machine is getting a pressure imbalance on startup, I would say that you have a supply issue. Good call Tim on checking the filters entering the machine. Which pressure gauge is low? Check that filter. You can call me if you like.

George
603.348.8880

Craig Maturi

Posted: Aug 26, 2007 09:08 PM

yes i have checked all filters. everything is clean and no leaks. i don't know what is going on. any other ideas?

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Aug 26, 2007 10:14 PM

Let's start from the beginning. Relieve all of the pressure from the system, both pressure gauges on the front of the machine @ 0 psi. You then turn the air to your drum pumps on to give you about 100-200lbs of pressure in the system on both the A and the B side. Please listen to hear both the A and the B drum pumps pump the same # of strokes. Then you turn the pressure up on the E-20. You are getting a pressure imbalance before triggering the gun? How high do the pressures get before getting the e-24? It sounds like you have a drum pump issue, dirty filter, blocked supply hose, faulty proportioner pump, or faulty pump motor. You should have recirculation lines connected to the front of your e-20. With pressure off on the e-20, open both valves on the front of the e-20. View the volume of material coming out of the recirc lines on the A and B side. If both are equal, and pump the same (actually, the a should pump faster than the B) then it is the e-20, if there is less material coming out one hose, then it is the drum pump. I'm up @ 6am if you need to talk.

Geo

Craig Maturi

Posted: Aug 27, 2007 05:39 AM

do you have phone # i could call and talk to you about this problem Geo?

SprayFoamSupply.com

Posted: Aug 27, 2007 06:01 AM

6033488880

Kelly Nunberg

Posted: Aug 27, 2007 01:02 PM

R U getting an E24 everytime or just once, 200psi is not that big of a difference, can be caused by the viscosity difference between the A and the B.

Craig Maturi

Posted: Aug 27, 2007 04:45 PM

always goes back to about a 200lb difference after i try to balance it. gonna rebuild stick pump and try that.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Aug 27, 2007 05:03 PM

I'm not too familiar with the E-20, are the fluid sections separate or are they opposed?

If the machine is s-l-o-w-l-y cycling the fluid section (creeping) that normally indicates internal weepage on the low side (in this case, the ISO pump).

Look for any scoring on the cylinder wall of the ISO pump AND resulting disfigurement of the ISO packings. This allows fliud to "bypass" internally and the other side gains pressure as this happens.

Just a thought, but if the filters are clean this is where I would look.

You might also have slight blockage where the whip hose joins the gun-this is very rare on the resin side. If the ISO side was 200 higher that would be a possiblity on the A-side.

Best of luck, I know these things can be frustrating, but figuring it out makes you feel better.

olger

Michael Flander

Posted: Aug 28, 2007 09:10 AM

Alright, I'm sure you have it fixed by now, but remember that the analog guages claim to be accurate to WITHIN 5%. So you have to allow for that right off the bat.

You can test the displacement pumps rather easily with a stall test. Bring the machine up to its maximum pressure(2000psi on an E-20), and watch which stroke the b side pump stops in(for this example lets say it stopped moving in the up stroke). When it stops, turn the machine off, and let it sit for 3-5 minutes. If it holds pressure in that stroke, flip it over to the other stroke by turning the machine back on, and cracking the relief valve slowly until the pump gets to its down stroke. Turn the machine back off and see if the it holds pressure.

If the machine holds pressure on both strokes, the packings in the pump are fine. If it does not hold pressure during any part of that test, give me a call with the specifics and I will be glad to help.

It is not all that uncommon for the E-Series reactors to come up to pressure the way you described. The only thing that matters is what it does in the trigger on situation.

If you are spraying 200 lbs off all day long and it does not get worse, A transfer pump problem is unlikely. It was mentioned above that it could be a viscosity difference, or a clog downstream, or even something clogged or restricted in the gun(like the side orifices of the mix chamber).

Generally if you have a transfer pump problem, you would not be able to spray with any consistency, meaning the fact that it is staying at 200 lbs off and not blipping or getting worse or better while your spraying means the transfer pump is keeping steady pressure on the machine.

'Ger was also right on with the whip hose to gun manifold connection. While you are checking the gun over, that is also a good spot to check.

But just remember, since it is consistent, it is most likely a clog or restriction downstream somewhere. Or if it has been doing it from the start, it could also be a viscosity difference. Try raising the temp on the side that stays at a higher pressure, and lower the temp of the side that stays at a lower pressure. If you have questions, call me.

My 2 cents,
Mike Flander
Endisys - 763-428-5075

Gerard G

Posted: Jul 29, 2015 05:34 PM

One way to test transfer pumps is to open valves allowing "A" and "B" to recirculate back to the drums. Supply only air to the pumps allowing them to pump by themselves, no help from proportioner. Listen for the pumps as the "A" pump will make one stroke and then the "B" pump will make one stroke. Let them cycle like this for a couple of minutes and keep a close eye and ear on them. If one of the pumps strokes 2 times before the other one you have a sticking pump, usually the iso "A" side. I forget who told me this years ago but it always has worked for me. I would disconnect air motor, slip shaft with packings out of pump and run a fine pick around edge of packings and clean anywhere else that iso has crystalized. Clean stainless ball and cylinder that packing pass through. Grease everything and put back together. This should get you back up and running quickly. Do not damage packings, ball or any part of pump for that matter by using bench brinder with wire wheel or any other ruff and abrupt method of trying to get iso off. I always try to treat my equipment like it is C4 and one wrong bull in a china cabinet move and I am dead in the water. "Take care of your equipment and it will take care of you" Not saying you dont care for your unit but you get my point.

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