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quentin Posted: Nov 24, 2007 02:29 PM	Old house retrofit OK, while working to get my own foam business running I am looking at my own house as a candidate for an example to others of the savings. It would be easy to show our old bills compared to the new ones for other clients then. My house is pretty typical of those in the area for older homes. Brick with the old slats and plaster walls instead of wallboard built in 1956. It also has no insulation in the walls as far as I can tell and of course moisture problems. The question is then, would it be a pour in of CC insulation or would you have to remove the old plaster and spray in CC? I believe UCSC makes a pour in CC but I am wondering if that is really a good way to do it or if tearing it all down is the only way to really do it.
Jeffrey Souder Posted: Nov 24, 2007 10:16 PM	Quentin, Look into CFI foam. They have a preexpanded foam system that would be a good addition to any foam business, and may be a great way to get your business started. Profit margins are much greater with the injectable preexpanded foams, and if i had it to do all over again, I would have gotten there rig first, then added the spray foam on later. I get more calls asking about retrofitting houses than for the spray foam right now. I am hoping my investor comes through with the money to add this onto my rig.
quentin Posted: Nov 24, 2007 11:46 PM	Interesting product. The trick is, I can't find in all the data if it is OC or CC which in this area can be very important. The version for pouring in to blocks says it won't support mold growth but that little disclaimer is missing from the wall fill version. I may have to do a list of questions and give them a ring on Monday to see what they say on them since it is an intertesting line. That certification requirement and it looking like protected territories I'm not too sure about from reading through the site. http://www.cfifoam.com/images/Product_Info.InsulSmart.pdf In old construction with brick exterior and slats with no insulation between there is a condensation issue and foam will help stop that but wouldn't it need to be CC in these places to help seal them?
Jeffrey Souder Posted: Nov 25, 2007 11:53 AM	Quentin, It is unlike the polyurethane foams like we are used to. It is actually made by mixing powders and liquid catalysts with water in two seperate tanks, and mixed at the gun. If you want to talk to someone using the system, talk to Luke from here, he does have the system, and gave me the advise to start with this, but I was stupid and didn't listen. Don't think of it as open cell or closed cell, but look at the individual specs. 1.6 pcf R 4.6 that actually goes up the colder it gets to over 5 below freezing. Also be aware I think it does contain some formaldehyde. I did look at some other companies that offer similar products, but CFI is the least expensive to get into, and no franchise fees. Cost of materials roughly $0.50 per square foot in a 2x4 wall, and sell for $2.00 per square foot. hope this helps some. jeff
Dave Strnad Posted: Nov 25, 2007 04:45 PM	Give Apex foam a call they have both open and closed cell that can be pour applied. If you are set up to spray foam all you need is a pour adapter for your gun, about $100-$200 depending on gun. Basically they just put less catalast in and you set your proportioner to 80-90 degrees to slow the reaction down. I keep wanting to try this, but haven't yet. The main problem is that you really have no idea what is going on behind the walls, and you need to drill alot of holes. Not to mention dragging everything around in a finished house. Anyway it can be done and if you need more info Apex would be a good place to start.
Luke Kujacznski Posted: Nov 25, 2007 07:29 PM	Hey guy, I thought that since you were talking about me I would jump in. CFIs foam is classified as a tripolymer, the thre components being Air, Resin and a Foaming agent. In my opinion it is the best way to reinsulate existing house with the least possibility of liability. By the way the local celluose company in my area gives all his retrofit jobs to me because I can do them faster and I don't blow out walls like he does. You can never be sure that you achieved 100% success but if you got 95% percent it is a lot better then what they had. We just did a house last week and they already called us a told us the can actually regulate the temp in their house now. It has an r-value of 4.6. If you have any more questions give me a call or shoot me an e-mail. Jeff I hope everything is going well with you. Also unless you want a lot of competition lets keep the profit margins between us, kidding I always welcome good competition. Later guys Luke

Author

Comments

quentin

Posted: Nov 24, 2007 02:29 PM

Old house retrofit

OK, while working to get my own foam business running I am looking at my own house as a candidate for an example to others of the savings. It would be easy to show our old bills compared to the new ones for other clients then. My house is pretty typical of those in the area for older homes. Brick with the old slats and plaster walls instead of wallboard built in 1956. It also has no insulation in the walls as far as I can tell and of course moisture problems.

The question is then, would it be a pour in of CC insulation or would you have to remove the old plaster and spray in CC? I believe UCSC makes a pour in CC but I am wondering if that is really a good way to do it or if tearing it all down is the only way to really do it.

Jeffrey Souder

Posted: Nov 24, 2007 10:16 PM

Quentin,
Look into CFI foam. They have a preexpanded foam system that would be a good addition to any foam business, and may be a great way to get your business started. Profit margins are much greater with the injectable preexpanded foams, and if i had it to do all over again, I would have gotten there rig first, then added the spray foam on later. I get more calls asking about retrofitting houses than for the spray foam right now.
I am hoping my investor comes through with the money to add this onto my rig.

quentin

Posted: Nov 24, 2007 11:46 PM

Interesting product. The trick is, I can't find in all the data if it is OC or CC which in this area can be very important. The version for pouring in to blocks says it won't support mold growth but that little disclaimer is missing from the wall fill version. I may have to do a list of questions and give them a ring on Monday to see what they say on them since it is an intertesting line. That certification requirement and it looking like protected territories I'm not too sure about from reading through the site.

http://www.cfifoam.com/images/Product_Info.InsulSmart.pdf

In old construction with brick exterior and slats with no insulation between there is a condensation issue and foam will help stop that but wouldn't it need to be CC in these places to help seal them?

Jeffrey Souder

Posted: Nov 25, 2007 11:53 AM

Quentin, It is unlike the polyurethane foams like we are used to. It is actually made by mixing powders and liquid catalysts with water in two seperate tanks, and mixed at the gun.
If you want to talk to someone using the system, talk to Luke from here, he does have the system, and gave me the advise to start with this, but I was stupid and didn't listen.
Don't think of it as open cell or closed cell, but look at the individual specs.
1.6 pcf
R 4.6 that actually goes up the colder it gets to over 5 below freezing.
Also be aware I think it does contain some formaldehyde.
I did look at some other companies that offer similar products, but CFI is the least expensive to get into, and no franchise fees.
Cost of materials roughly $0.50 per square foot in a 2x4 wall, and sell for $2.00 per square foot.

hope this helps some.
jeff

Dave Strnad

Posted: Nov 25, 2007 04:45 PM

Give Apex foam a call they have both open and closed cell that can be pour applied. If you are set up to spray foam all you need is a pour adapter for your gun, about $100-$200 depending on gun. Basically they just put less catalast in and you set your proportioner to 80-90 degrees to slow the reaction down. I keep wanting to try this, but haven't yet. The main problem is that you really have no idea what is going on behind the walls, and you need to drill alot of holes. Not to mention dragging everything around in a finished house. Anyway it can be done and if you need more info Apex would be a good place to start.

Luke Kujacznski

Posted: Nov 25, 2007 07:29 PM

Hey guy,
I thought that since you were talking about me I would jump in. CFIs foam is classified as a tripolymer, the thre components being Air, Resin and a Foaming agent. In my opinion it is the best way to reinsulate existing house with the least possibility of liability. By the way the local celluose company in my area gives all his retrofit jobs to me because I can do them faster and I don't blow out walls like he does. You can never be sure that you achieved 100% success but if you got 95% percent it is a lot better then what they had. We just did a house last week and they already called us a told us the can actually regulate the temp in their house now. It has an r-value of 4.6. If you have any more questions give me a call or shoot me an e-mail. Jeff I hope everything is going well with you. Also unless you want a lot of competition lets keep the profit margins between us, kidding I always welcome good competition.

Later guys

Luke

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