Outside Temperature | Ask Mason Knowles - SPF Consultant | Spray Foam Technical Questions and Answers | SprayFoam Magazine Q&A Forums

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Posted: Feb 09, 2011 01:42 PM	Outside Temperature Hey Mason We have become pretty adept at spraying during colder weather on outside applications by Louisiana Standards. Learning to heat our materials in the drum before it ever hits our reactor has helped us spray on cold days right at the limits. The use of black primer on roofs when it is 50 Degrees outside has helped us out tremendously in heating up the substrate so we get an immediate rise. I know SPFA has a 50 Degree and rising temperature that they suggest foam be applied in; however, at what point do we start to lose yield as temperatures get lower and lower. We can control the substrate, material temps and our spray pattern by all of the things that I have mentioned, but am suprised by the difference in yield at 45 Degrees outside temps and 55 Degrees. What can I do to not lose yield during colder temps, or should I just call it a day and finish when it warms up? Steve
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Feb 10, 2011 08:23 AM	Up here in NY, we spray on cold days all the time. Especially down in the single digits! We just heat up our material to 90-100F prior to spraying and they really helps. The other thing is we wil bump our spray temps up too. In the winter, depending on how much hose is outside, we'll typiclaly be spraying at hose/heater temps set at 140-145F. Don't be fooled. You can do this and it will work out well. You might not get the same yeild that you get in the summer time when the substrate is warmer, but you have to try to compensate for that heat loss and add that to your hose/heater temps. It wil take some additional dialling in of your temps but it can be done. Thanks, Jim
Posted: Feb 10, 2011 08:43 AM	Hey Jim Are you spraying outdoors at those low temps or indoors where you can heat up?
mason Posted: Feb 11, 2011 02:12 AM	As you probably have noticed, you start to lose yield when it gets below 70 degrees F. But you really feel it when it is below 60. Manufacturers test their foams typically around 75 degrees F. But most have a winter formula that can go to lower temperatures and maintain yield. Check with yout supplier for their recomendations
quentin Posted: Feb 11, 2011 09:18 AM	Also remeber that yields will drop some with cold weather. We look at the temps for the period we are spraying and note in the contract that a quote will change if it gets cold. This is due to the yield losses, added costs to warm everything up and etc. Since we are careful to explain the reasons and how the costs increase for us when it gets cold they have never had a problem with that in the estimates and contracts. If you are upfront, honest and explain things to the customers, they tend to be very understanding since they know you need to make a living while providing a quality service. If they do not like that then you likely do not want them as a customer since they are looking only at price and will be more trouble than they are worth to you.
Posted: Feb 12, 2011 04:39 AM	...we charge the same year round,,,many jobs are bid in august and shot in the winter,,seems like in the winter everyone makes money but the company,,lol,, if i supply the heat wagon,,i upcharge for the diesel to run it.. quentin is dead on,,communication is tantamount in all aspects of what we do,,,
quentin Posted: Feb 12, 2011 07:45 PM	OUCH dude!! When you have fuel proces jump or etc that has to hurt! Once we have the job defined, we make sure they know it is a 30day bid and that it can be the same or clase after that but falling temperatures or rising fuel proces and etc can make a difference. Now if they have us bid in winter and in spring we have warmer weather with the same fuel proces, then we may know a bit off too.
mason Posted: Feb 17, 2011 06:07 AM	Off the topic, but I just wanted folks to know that Bayou Boy is one of those folks that you can count on with situations are tough.

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Comments

Posted: Feb 09, 2011 01:42 PM

Outside Temperature

Hey Mason

We have become pretty adept at spraying during colder weather on outside applications by Louisiana Standards. Learning to heat our materials in the drum before it ever hits our reactor has helped us spray on cold days right at the limits.

The use of black primer on roofs when it is 50 Degrees outside has helped us out tremendously in heating up the substrate so we get an immediate rise.

I know SPFA has a 50 Degree and rising temperature that they suggest foam be applied in; however, at what point do we start to lose yield as temperatures get lower and lower.

We can control the substrate, material temps and our spray pattern by all of the things that I have mentioned, but am suprised by the difference in yield at 45 Degrees outside temps and 55 Degrees.

What can I do to not lose yield during colder temps, or should I just call it a day and finish when it warms up?

Steve

jimcoler

I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs.

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Feb 10, 2011 08:23 AM

Up here in NY, we spray on cold days all the time. Especially down in the single digits! We just heat up our material to 90-100F prior to spraying and they really helps. The other thing is we wil bump our spray temps up too. In the winter, depending on how much hose is outside, we'll typiclaly be spraying at hose/heater temps set at 140-145F. Don't be fooled. You can do this and it will work out well. You might not get the same yeild that you get in the summer time when the substrate is warmer, but you have to try to compensate for that heat loss and add that to your hose/heater temps. It wil take some additional dialling in of your temps but it can be done.
Thanks,
Jim

Posted: Feb 10, 2011 08:43 AM

Hey Jim

Are you spraying outdoors at those low temps or indoors where you can heat up?

mason

Posted: Feb 11, 2011 02:12 AM

As you probably have noticed, you start to lose yield when it gets below 70 degrees F. But you really feel it when it is below 60.

Manufacturers test their foams typically around 75 degrees F. But most have a winter formula that can go to lower temperatures and maintain yield. Check with yout supplier for their recomendations

quentin

Posted: Feb 11, 2011 09:18 AM

Also remeber that yields will drop some with cold weather. We look at the temps for the period we are spraying and note in the contract that a quote will change if it gets cold. This is due to the yield losses, added costs to warm everything up and etc. Since we are careful to explain the reasons and how the costs increase for us when it gets cold they have never had a problem with that in the estimates and contracts.

If you are upfront, honest and explain things to the customers, they tend to be very understanding since they know you need to make a living while providing a quality service. If they do not like that then you likely do not want them as a customer since they are looking only at price and will be more trouble than they are worth to you.

Posted: Feb 12, 2011 04:39 AM

...we charge the same year round,,,many jobs are bid in august and shot in the winter,,seems like in the winter everyone makes money but the company,,lol,,
if i supply the heat wagon,,i upcharge for the diesel to run it..
quentin is dead on,,communication is tantamount in all aspects of what we do,,,

quentin

Posted: Feb 12, 2011 07:45 PM

OUCH dude!! When you have fuel proces jump or etc that has to hurt! Once we have the job defined, we make sure they know it is a 30day bid and that it can be the same or clase after that but falling temperatures or rising fuel proces and etc can make a difference. Now if they have us bid in winter and in spring we have warmer weather with the same fuel proces, then we may know a bit off too.

mason

Posted: Feb 17, 2011 06:07 AM

Off the topic, but I just wanted folks to know that Bayou Boy is one of those folks that you can count on with situations are tough.

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