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LHR964 Posted: Sep 06, 2017 07:42 PM	Rhino Spray Foam Job - 3 Weeks Later - Concerns I'll just lay out the facts in bullet style to condense the typing (and reading): 1) Rhino ThermalGuard CC2 installed 3 weeks ago in garage ceiling (below 2nd floor conditioned space) 2) Garage 1st floor has been open (both garage overhead doors, two man doors, and three windows) for continuous air movement / venting for all three weeks, except maybe one or two days. 3) Fishy smell still remains when garage closed up (no venting or air movement), but dissipates quite a bit when garage opened up. 4) Thickness was supposed to be 3", some areas appear to be 8" thick, with much of the ceiling averaging 3"-5" thick. 5) Contractor (Owner) came today to drill a couple core samples. Immediately noticeable was that the face of the foam exposed to air was pretty hard, almost hard plastic type surface characteristic. About an inch into the core sample the foam became very soft and squishy. The core sample was falling apart and disintegrating as he was core drilling. 6) Inner core sample had a very strong and distinct chemical smell 7) Above garage is going to be living space, so I don't want long term chemical smells / health issues affecting my young children. 8) The foam will soon be covered in 9" fiberglass batts and then drywalled. This is presently holding up the project, but I don't want to proceed and then have to tear out the fiberglass batts and drywall to fix the foam if this is going to present a long term issue with odors. Just looking for thoughts and opinions. I have a couple videos that are slowly uploading to YouTube that will help show what I am trying to describe above. I'll post those as soon as the links are ready. Thank you for the help.
LHR964 Posted: Sep 06, 2017 07:48 PM	I think it is prudent to also mention that the owner of the company that did the job has been very cordial and understanding of my concerns. It seems like he is willing to try to get to the bottom of this. I just wanted to reach out to some of the folks here for unbiased 3rd party opinions.
LHR964 Posted: Sep 06, 2017 08:12 PM	Videos of foam core samples: https://youtu.be/6hJcEAk2-ZE https://youtu.be/1j43nvr38CI
mason Posted: Sep 07, 2017 01:14 PM	Assuming the foam has been installed fairly thick and it is a closed cell foam, the foam probably got too hot during its initial rise and cure. This can cause the catalysts to become much stinkier than normal. Removing the thick foam causing the odor should take care of it. After the foam is removed, ventilate the area and add some odor absorbing mats to hang in the space and filters that go into your return air ducts . (You can purchase these from a company called D Mark). Call me at 571-239-5221 to discuss. Also, go to my website masonknowles.com and download a couple of my articles on the subject. Mason
beringstar Posted: Nov 21, 2017 08:09 AM	LHR964 Foam is designed in the lab to be mixed at a 1:1 ratio. Industry equipment is designed to execute that ratio in the field. however there are many, many variables that can affect the ratio of the chemical mix onsite at the time of the application. Without going into the details of that, the things you are describing indicate both excessive/irregular thickness as well as a possible pressure imbalance in the equipment that left one chemical that did not completely react. Isocyanate, being one that reacts to moisture, if it is rich, will result in a cured but bad cell structure and the foam will be chalky and brittle. If the foam is resin rich and there is a restriction in the Iso side of the mix, the foam will remain gummy and can change form over time and emit an odor.

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LHR964

Posted: Sep 06, 2017 07:42 PM

Rhino Spray Foam Job - 3 Weeks Later - Concerns

I'll just lay out the facts in bullet style to condense the typing (and reading):

1) Rhino ThermalGuard CC2 installed 3 weeks ago in garage ceiling (below 2nd floor conditioned space)
2) Garage 1st floor has been open (both garage overhead doors, two man doors, and three windows) for continuous air movement / venting for all three weeks, except maybe one or two days.
3) Fishy smell still remains when garage closed up (no venting or air movement), but dissipates quite a bit when garage opened up.
4) Thickness was supposed to be 3", some areas appear to be 8" thick, with much of the ceiling averaging 3"-5" thick.
5) Contractor (Owner) came today to drill a couple core samples. Immediately noticeable was that the face of the foam exposed to air was pretty hard, almost hard plastic type surface characteristic. About an inch into the core sample the foam became very soft and squishy. The core sample was falling apart and disintegrating as he was core drilling.
6) Inner core sample had a very strong and distinct chemical smell
7) Above garage is going to be living space, so I don't want long term chemical smells / health issues affecting my young children.
8) The foam will soon be covered in 9" fiberglass batts and then drywalled. This is presently holding up the project, but I don't want to proceed and then have to tear out the fiberglass batts and drywall to fix the foam if this is going to present a long term issue with odors.

Just looking for thoughts and opinions. I have a couple videos that are slowly uploading to YouTube that will help show what I am trying to describe above. I'll post those as soon as the links are ready.

Thank you for the help.

LHR964

Posted: Sep 06, 2017 07:48 PM

I think it is prudent to also mention that the owner of the company that did the job has been very cordial and understanding of my concerns. It seems like he is willing to try to get to the bottom of this. I just wanted to reach out to some of the folks here for unbiased 3rd party opinions.

LHR964

Posted: Sep 06, 2017 08:12 PM

Videos of foam core samples:

https://youtu.be/6hJcEAk2-ZE

https://youtu.be/1j43nvr38CI

mason

Posted: Sep 07, 2017 01:14 PM

Assuming the foam has been installed fairly thick and it is a closed cell foam, the foam probably got too hot during its initial rise and cure. This can cause the catalysts to become much stinkier than normal. Removing the thick foam causing the odor should take care of it. After the foam is removed, ventilate the area and add some odor absorbing mats to hang in the space and filters that go into your return air ducts . (You can purchase these from a company called D Mark). Call me at 571-239-5221 to discuss. Also, go to my website masonknowles.com and download a couple of my articles on the subject.

Mason

beringstar

Posted: Nov 21, 2017 08:09 AM

LHR964

Foam is designed in the lab to be mixed at a 1:1 ratio. Industry equipment is designed to execute that ratio in the field. however there are many, many variables that can affect the ratio of the chemical mix onsite at the time of the application. Without going into the details of that, the things you are describing indicate both excessive/irregular thickness as well as a possible pressure imbalance in the equipment that left one chemical that did not completely react. Isocyanate, being one that reacts to moisture, if it is rich, will result in a cured but bad cell structure and the foam will be chalky and brittle. If the foam is resin rich and there is a restriction in the Iso side of the mix, the foam will remain gummy and can change form over time and emit an odor.

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