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Chuck Bartowski Posted: Apr 20, 2009 12:27 PM	Rushed job, too thick and smells real bad We seemed to have rushed a job and sprayed way too thick in certain areas. The smell is very potent even after 15 days and now we are scrambling trying to remove the thick areas. The home owener is complaining and even our tech's are getting headaches while removing. Is there anything we can do to minimize the strong odors without removing all the foam? We are 3 days into the removal and have only 2% removed. We are thinking of using Kilz Oil based as an encapsulating paint. Any advice or experience is welcomed. At this rate, all profits are already gone.
mason Posted: Apr 21, 2009 08:09 AM	I was on a job last week that was 2.5 years old and when I cut into the foam, it had an odor. The foam was sprayed too thick. But, you could not smell the odor until you cut into it. An encapsulant might work, even another lift (1 inch)/ But to get rid of any risidual odors, the foam would need to come off. Think of it like a house that had a fire. You either have to remove the smokey materials or cover it with something the odor cannot escape. Another potential problem down the road might be shrinkage of the foam. So, I would remove the foam, it might save a larger problem later on.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 27, 2009 01:57 PM	This is an aspect that the manufacturers should be fixing. Until they do, it will remain an additional negative from the 141b -- 245fa switchover.
Chuck Bartowski Posted: Apr 27, 2009 03:26 PM	Olger, We have been told by the MFG that this is my fault and it was an application/equipment problem. We have never seen this before but then again most jobs have been new construction and this is the first complaint of odor. I would like to know more about the 141b -- 245fa switchover and if that may be a factor in this case.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 28, 2009 08:36 AM	The switchover isn't the direct problem, but rather some new ingredients that are causing odor problems. These odor problems were unheard of from 1993 to 2005 (with 141b). best wishes, oG
mason Posted: Apr 28, 2009 10:21 AM	Odor has always been a problem if the foam was sprayed off ratio or too thick. However, the problem seems to be more prevalent after the new foams were developed. But, this also could be due to the greater thickness that we are installing. Until a few years ago, it was not as common to install 5-8 inches of closed cell foam in walls and ceilings. This can also be a contributing factor.
Michael Fusco Posted: May 01, 2009 01:23 PM	Hey guys......when you spray in a new construction there is almost always the free flow of air. Foam will off-gas for a minimum of 24 hrs, concentrated amines stink, period. And that assumes there are no ratio issues. If you are spraying attics in retrofit applications, or any other assembly in a closed area, you MUST circulate air....in one place...out another. The more you can move, the better. In the siutation you are in now, you have to consider odor seeping into the wood, or any other porous material in the area. The warmer and more humid it is, the more likely this will occur. That odor will be driven out of the wood when it gets warm, but could take a very long time to dissapate completely...I have seen 2-3 years. More foam....more odor, so Mason's comment is also an issue. I have not seen a method that will cure the problem once it gets started. A little prevention is worth tons of cure......

Author

Comments

Chuck Bartowski

Posted: Apr 20, 2009 12:27 PM

Rushed job, too thick and smells real bad

We seemed to have rushed a job and sprayed way too thick in certain areas. The smell is very potent even after 15 days and now we are scrambling trying to remove the thick areas. The home owener is complaining and even our tech's are getting headaches while removing.

Is there anything we can do to minimize the strong odors without removing all the foam? We are 3 days into the removal and have only 2% removed.

We are thinking of using Kilz Oil based as an encapsulating paint.

Any advice or experience is welcomed. At this rate, all profits are already gone.

mason

Posted: Apr 21, 2009 08:09 AM

I was on a job last week that was 2.5 years old and when I cut into the foam, it had an odor. The foam was sprayed too thick. But, you could not smell the odor until you cut into it. An encapsulant might work, even another lift (1 inch)/ But to get rid of any risidual odors, the foam would need to come off. Think of it like a house that had a fire. You either have to remove the smokey materials or cover it with something the odor cannot escape.

Another potential problem down the road might be shrinkage of the foam. So, I would remove the foam, it might save a larger problem later on.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 27, 2009 01:57 PM

This is an aspect that the manufacturers should be fixing.

Until they do, it will remain an additional negative from the 141b -- 245fa switchover.

Chuck Bartowski

Posted: Apr 27, 2009 03:26 PM

Olger,

We have been told by the MFG that this is my fault and it was an application/equipment problem. We have never seen this before but then again most jobs have been new construction and this is the first complaint of odor. I would like to know more about the 141b -- 245fa switchover and if that may be a factor in this case.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 28, 2009 08:36 AM

The switchover isn't the direct problem, but rather some new ingredients that are causing odor problems. These odor problems were unheard of from 1993 to 2005 (with 141b).

best wishes,

oG

mason

Posted: Apr 28, 2009 10:21 AM

Odor has always been a problem if the foam was sprayed off ratio or too thick. However, the problem seems to be more prevalent after the new foams were developed. But, this also could be due to the greater thickness that we are installing. Until a few years ago, it was not as common to install 5-8 inches of closed cell foam in walls and ceilings. This can also be a contributing factor.

Michael Fusco

Posted: May 01, 2009 01:23 PM

Hey guys......when you spray in a new construction there is almost always the free flow of air. Foam will off-gas for a minimum of 24 hrs, concentrated amines stink, period. And that assumes there are no ratio issues.

If you are spraying attics in retrofit applications, or any other assembly in a closed area, you MUST circulate air....in one place...out another. The more you can move, the better.

In the siutation you are in now, you have to consider odor seeping into the wood, or any other porous material in the area. The warmer and more humid it is, the more likely this will occur. That odor will be driven out of the wood when it gets warm, but could take a very long time to dissapate completely...I have seen 2-3 years.

More foam....more odor, so Mason's comment is also an issue.

I have not seen a method that will cure the problem once it gets started.

A little prevention is worth tons of cure......

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