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Author	Comments
Trey Gibson Posted: Feb 14, 2007 07:43 PM	Sealection 500 We have been having yield problems the last few weeks, both of our rigs have been using about 1 set more than the Project was intended for. I would like to say it was the estimators fault, but after 2 years of not having any problems I don’t believe he is at fault. Any help will be appreciated.
Posted: Feb 14, 2007 08:32 PM	Why don't you call the MFG so they can address the issue directly? I don't like to publicly ask about problems with a product unless the MFG has had the opportunity to address the problem first and refuses to help or can't help. Tim
Posted: Feb 14, 2007 09:09 PM	We have not used the sealection 500 but we are having the same problem with the Heatlok 217-0.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 15, 2007 05:59 PM	Cold weather significantly reduces the yield of ½-pound. We all hear fantastic yield reports of 14-18000 bdf, but in very cold weather we really only get about 11-13k (if that). In the future, don't bid cold weather jobs with warm weather yield expectatios. I had to learn this repeatedly until it sunk in. foam it, olger
Thomas Kasper Posted: Feb 15, 2007 09:20 PM	I agree with olger and say it is the cold weather.
Melvin Chandler Posted: Feb 18, 2007 08:04 PM	I've been told 18k bd ft is the rule for S500 and not the exception. Was told to base sf price on 18k yield but always order based on 15k yield leading me to believe that 15k would be the min yield. Then I get numbers like 12k from guys pulling the trigger. My field experience with S500 is about 15k bd ft. As for shrinkage, I've always been instructed that you want no more than 1/4" shrinkage with the test buns. As long as I stay in those margins our foam and yield is decent.
charles hogan Posted: Apr 17, 2007 10:03 PM	I don't know how it works with sealection sales people but the salesman and company I buy my insulstar product from has been terrible and has given me no support at all, even with defective product problems, I am now switching to the sealection 500 along with my 2lb foam. I believe it is important to voice our concerns and help each other with product review and coments about products, I know we can't risk our income on a salesperson. Lets be honest with each other.I will do my part!
Posted: Apr 18, 2007 04:58 PM	I agree and I agree. I dont want to overreact to a salesman having a bad day. but consistently poor service from a rep is a cardinal sin in the sales world. -aaron
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 18, 2007 05:08 PM	This is a very good thread because it addresses the real world issues that we deal with as contractors. Measuring volume is a tough task when the material is as undulated (bumpy) as half-pounds are. Thus we are often left bidding jobs with "expected" yield formulas and actually obtaining a lesser figure. In an effort to sell foam, reps are often reaching higher & higher for optimum yield expectations, leaving the contractor stuck with the deficit. Solutions: 1) Don't bid any job as if you will get optimum yields. Why? Cause you won't get that yield on 98% of the work that you do. 2) Encourage our reps to be realistic. Mine are. 3) Take careful yield analysis' on the foams that we use and chronicle it as a bid input. ie: we have gotten 3300 bf with 1" on concrete. That same foam has yielded 5700 bf at 3" in one pass (studwalls). 4) Encourage your spray mechanics to apply an average, not a minimum, based on how the project was bid. I see no problem with us sharing testimonials on the different brands that we use. Some are positive and some are negative depending upon the experience. Each of them are helpful as we communicate. Let us make sure that the negative posts are not nasty or personal, and above all, let us be honest. All will profit in the end. Thanks gcw
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 18, 2007 05:35 PM	We recently switched half-pound foams because of the extemely low yield we were receiving. 10-12,000 bf. We decided to try a brand that reportedly gets 19k. Yesterday morning my guy calls and says this foam is yielding like crazy! Good news, I chalk one up for olger. He calls back in the evening and gives me the area covered, thickness, and the machine strokes. I plug that into Excel, and the number returned is 11,616 bf. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!?? Either he can't add or measure very well. Or our state of the art foam rig is messed up (it isn't). Or the foam is WAY underperforming... I think I have it solved. It's probably Global Warming...heh heh. More later... This is olger signing off.
Michael Flander Posted: Apr 19, 2007 10:04 AM	I just about fell out of my chair in laughter reading that Olger... Do you think foamer's were having the same problem 100 years ago when the weather was doing the exact same thing? :) Mike
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 25, 2007 09:12 PM	:) I sent a man to the jobsite to measure it accurately. The first phase came back at 14530 bf. The second phase came back at 18921 bf. That's more better. olger
Marc Kast Posted: May 02, 2007 09:00 AM	20k board ft per set of .5 density foam should not be a dream that only occurs when the stars are lined up correctly!! If the formulation is good it should be the norm. If the quality control is there it should be consistent. Home Foam was designed by a contractor for his own use and it has been so sucessful that it is being marketed to other contractors that are tired of salesmen and chemists giving theoretical yields that you can never achieve in real world. Applications don't occur in labs that are climate controlled so foams need to be flexible in their application perameters. If you are tired of always coming up short and what to try something new visit www.homefoam.ca and start realising the yields you deserve from your system.

Author

Comments

Trey Gibson

Posted: Feb 14, 2007 07:43 PM

Sealection 500

We have been having yield problems the last few weeks, both of our rigs have been using about 1 set more than the Project was intended for. I would like to say it was the estimators fault, but after 2 years of not having any problems I don’t believe he is at fault. Any help will be appreciated.

Posted: Feb 14, 2007 08:32 PM

Why don't you call the MFG so they can address the issue directly? I don't like to publicly ask about problems with a product unless the MFG has had the opportunity to address the problem first and refuses to help or can't help.

Tim

Posted: Feb 14, 2007 09:09 PM

We have not used the sealection 500 but we are having the same problem with the Heatlok 217-0.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Feb 15, 2007 05:59 PM

Cold weather significantly reduces the yield of ½-pound. We all hear fantastic yield reports of 14-18000 bdf, but in very cold weather we really only get about 11-13k (if that).

In the future, don't bid cold weather jobs with warm weather yield expectatios. I had to learn this repeatedly until it sunk in.

foam it,

olger

Thomas Kasper

Posted: Feb 15, 2007 09:20 PM

I agree with olger and say it is the cold weather.

Melvin Chandler

Posted: Feb 18, 2007 08:04 PM

I've been told 18k bd ft is the rule for S500 and not the exception. Was told to base sf price on 18k yield but always order based on 15k yield leading me to believe that 15k would be the min yield. Then I get numbers like 12k from guys pulling the trigger. My field experience with S500 is about 15k bd ft.

As for shrinkage, I've always been instructed that you want no more than 1/4" shrinkage with the test buns. As long as I stay in those margins our foam and yield is decent.

charles hogan

Posted: Apr 17, 2007 10:03 PM

I don't know how it works with sealection sales people but the salesman and company I buy my insulstar product from has been terrible and has given me no support at all, even with defective product problems, I am now switching to the sealection 500 along with my 2lb foam. I believe it is important to voice our concerns and help each other with product review and coments about products, I know we can't risk our income on a salesperson. Lets be honest with each other.I will do my part!

Posted: Apr 18, 2007 04:58 PM

I agree and I agree. I dont want to overreact to a salesman having a bad day. but consistently poor service from a rep is a cardinal sin in the sales world.

-aaron

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 18, 2007 05:08 PM

This is a very good thread because it addresses the real world issues that we deal with as contractors. Measuring volume is a tough task when the material is as undulated (bumpy) as half-pounds are. Thus we are often left bidding jobs with "expected" yield formulas and actually obtaining a lesser figure.

In an effort to sell foam, reps are often reaching higher & higher for optimum yield expectations, leaving the contractor stuck with the deficit.

Solutions:

1) Don't bid any job as if you will get optimum yields. Why? Cause you won't get that yield on 98% of the work that you do.

2) Encourage our reps to be realistic. Mine are.

3) Take careful yield analysis' on the foams that we use and chronicle it as a bid input. ie: we have gotten 3300 bf with 1" on concrete. That same foam has yielded 5700 bf at 3" in one pass (studwalls).

4) Encourage your spray mechanics to apply an average, not a minimum, based on how the project was bid.

I see no problem with us sharing testimonials on the different brands that we use. Some are positive and some are negative depending upon the experience. Each of them are helpful as we communicate. Let us make sure that the negative posts are not nasty or personal, and above all, let us be honest. All will profit in the end.

Thanks

gcw

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 18, 2007 05:35 PM

We recently switched half-pound foams because of the extemely low yield we were receiving. 10-12,000 bf.

We decided to try a brand that reportedly gets 19k. Yesterday morning my guy calls and says this foam is yielding like crazy! Good news, I chalk one up for olger.

He calls back in the evening and gives me the area covered, thickness, and the machine strokes. I plug that into Excel, and the number returned is 11,616 bf. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!??

Either he can't add or measure very well. Or our state of the art foam rig is messed up (it isn't). Or the foam is WAY underperforming...

I think I have it solved. It's probably Global Warming...heh heh.

More later...

This is olger signing off.

Michael Flander

Posted: Apr 19, 2007 10:04 AM

I just about fell out of my chair in laughter reading that Olger...

Do you think foamer's were having the same problem 100 years ago when the weather was doing the exact same thing? :)

Mike

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 25, 2007 09:12 PM

:)

I sent a man to the jobsite to measure it accurately. The first phase came back at 14530 bf.

The second phase came back at 18921 bf. That's more better.

olger

Marc Kast

Posted: May 02, 2007 09:00 AM

20k board ft per set of .5 density foam should not be a dream that only occurs when the stars are lined up correctly!! If the formulation is good it should be the norm. If the quality control is there it should be consistent. Home Foam was designed by a contractor for his own use and it has been so sucessful that it is being marketed to other contractors that are tired of salesmen and chemists giving theoretical yields that you can never achieve in real world. Applications don't occur in labs that are climate controlled so foams need to be flexible in their application perameters. If you are tired of always coming up short and what to try something new visit www.homefoam.ca and start realising the yields you deserve from your system.

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