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Corey Degetaire Posted: Nov 17, 2008 03:51 PM	Sheet Metal Building w/ framed house built inside I have an upcoming job that is a 50' x 100' metal building, inside of this building the customer is going to frame and finish a 3 bedroom apartment inside of it? My thoughts were to go with 2" of CC on the underside of the sheet metal w/ 1" covering main beams and other exposed metal girts, etc... Or would it be better to use OC at 5" thick. Has anyone ever sprayed this scenario before? Any suggestions to what type, thickness and where the foam should be applied?
mason Posted: Nov 18, 2008 07:48 AM	Lots to consider. First thing, where is it located? Two inches may not be enough for maximum efficiency. I would go at least 3 inches of closed cell in a hot or mixed climate and 4 to 5 inches of closed cell in colder climates. With open cell just double the insulation amount. Do you want extra resistance against water intrusion and building strength, go with the closed cell. If you want better sound absorption and flexibility with the metal , go with the open cell. Next, think about reducing the potential for thermal bridging. Since you have a clean slate, you can position your interior studs off of the wall a couple of inches, then encapsulate it in foam. This stops thermal bridging (except at the beams, which you would want to insulate on both sides). Good luck
quentin Posted: Nov 18, 2008 08:37 AM	I just did a metal church and they used wood framing with the metal outside structure screwed to the wood frame. To save costs they just went with 1.5in of CC and then fiberjunk os going in after that. I suggested instead they use OC over the CC but the costs were an issue since they have someone donating the bats. Also they are using bats on the ceiling but their choice. At this they at least gain the structural help and sealing of the foam for the walls and later they may have me do a retro with any luck but you may want to suggest a CC then OC setup which will save them some money and provide both benifits. CC on walls and etc first to add the strength and seaing benifits and then the OC to help quiet things down on top of that. Just my two bits.
Corey Degetaire Posted: Nov 18, 2008 08:59 AM	Thanks to both of you guys for the input!! This building is located in South Louisiana, Hot and Humid summers, with what i would call mild winters compared to the rest of the US. And last but not least Hurricane Season!! I am going to propose 3" of CC to the interior of the metal building as Mason suggested, and 1" to any main beams and other metal supports to help with thermal bridging... Should I also suggest OC to be applied to exterior walls and ceiling of the wood framed section inside the metal building? My thoughts on this would be to reduce the noise and and actual area to be heated and cooled, or would the 3" of CC to the interior of the metal building be sufficent and adding the OC be wasting the customers money?
mason Posted: Nov 20, 2008 03:19 PM	The foam will save that building duriing a storm. I just did a hurricane investigation from Hurricane Dolly and saw a postframe building I sprayed with foam in a picture frame pattern from the inside survive 110 mph winds while the new metal on the other side of the building blew off. Again all we did was spray the areas where the wood trusses fastened to the metal panels in a picture frame. I have other documentation of metal buildings being held together by foam during Hurricane Katrina while the other parts of the building blew up from pressurization. See my articles at sprayfoammagazine.com and at my web site masonknowles.com
Corey Degetaire Posted: Feb 11, 2009 08:43 PM	It looks as though only half of the inside of this building is going to be used for living and half as a shop/garage. The living portion will be covered inside by 1/2" gypsum and by 1/2" gypsum on the wall bordering the remainder of the building considered as the shop. Does the half that is going to be considered as a shop an uninhabited area require a thermal or ignition barrier over the cc foam? Or could this area be painted with a latex paint?

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Corey Degetaire

Posted: Nov 17, 2008 03:51 PM

Sheet Metal Building w/ framed house built inside

I have an upcoming job that is a 50' x 100' metal building, inside of this building the customer is going to frame and finish a 3 bedroom apartment inside of it? My thoughts were to go with 2" of CC on the underside of the sheet metal w/ 1" covering main beams and other exposed metal girts, etc... Or would it be better to use OC at 5" thick. Has anyone ever sprayed this scenario before? Any suggestions to what type, thickness and where the foam should be applied?

mason

Posted: Nov 18, 2008 07:48 AM

Lots to consider.

First thing, where is it located? Two inches may not be enough for maximum efficiency. I would go at least 3 inches of closed cell in a hot or mixed climate and 4 to 5 inches of closed cell in colder climates. With open cell just double the insulation amount.

Do you want extra resistance against water intrusion and building strength, go with the closed cell. If you want better sound absorption and flexibility with the metal , go with the open cell.

Next, think about reducing the potential for thermal bridging. Since you have a clean slate, you can position your interior studs off of the wall a couple of inches, then encapsulate it in foam. This stops thermal bridging (except at the beams, which you would want to insulate on both sides).

Good luck

quentin

Posted: Nov 18, 2008 08:37 AM

I just did a metal church and they used wood framing with the metal outside structure screwed to the wood frame. To save costs they just went with 1.5in of CC and then fiberjunk os going in after that. I suggested instead they use OC over the CC but the costs were an issue since they have someone donating the bats. Also they are using bats on the ceiling but their choice.

At this they at least gain the structural help and sealing of the foam for the walls and later they may have me do a retro with any luck but you may want to suggest a CC then OC setup which will save them some money and provide both benifits. CC on walls and etc first to add the strength and seaing benifits and then the OC to help quiet things down on top of that.

Just my two bits.

Corey Degetaire

Posted: Nov 18, 2008 08:59 AM

Thanks to both of you guys for the input!! This building is located in South Louisiana, Hot and Humid summers, with what i would call mild winters compared to the rest of the US. And last but not least Hurricane Season!! I am going to propose 3" of CC to the interior of the metal building as Mason suggested, and 1" to any main beams and other metal supports to help with thermal bridging... Should I also suggest OC to be applied to exterior walls and ceiling of the wood framed section inside the metal building? My thoughts on this would be to reduce the noise and and actual area to be heated and cooled, or would the 3" of CC to the interior of the metal building be sufficent and adding the OC be wasting the customers money?

mason

Posted: Nov 20, 2008 03:19 PM

The foam will save that building duriing a storm. I just did a hurricane investigation from Hurricane Dolly and saw a postframe building I sprayed with foam in a picture frame pattern from the inside survive 110 mph winds while the new metal on the other side of the building blew off. Again all we did was spray the areas where the wood trusses fastened to the metal panels in a picture frame. I have other documentation of metal buildings being held together by foam during Hurricane Katrina while the other parts of the building blew up from pressurization. See my articles at sprayfoammagazine.com and at my web site masonknowles.com

Corey Degetaire

Posted: Feb 11, 2009 08:43 PM

It looks as though only half of the inside of this building is going to be used for living and half as a shop/garage. The living portion will be covered inside by 1/2" gypsum and by 1/2" gypsum on the wall bordering the remainder of the building considered as the shop. Does the half that is going to be considered as a shop an uninhabited area require a thermal or ignition barrier over the cc foam? Or could this area be painted with a latex paint?

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