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mark moyer Posted: Jan 31, 2012 11:48 AM	shinking injection foam is anyone getting the phone calls about shrinking injection foam after this stuff dries??? we've pulled some wallboard from previously injected (aminoplast foam) walls and man this stuff is shriveled up good around the periphery,, now the media remainin is darned nice and doesnt disentegrate when touched like the old ufi foams that so damaged the "foam insulation" industry years ago..but man,,im wonderin is this crap gonna do the same thing for the foam industry,,,, pity we have a bunch of foamers whom couldnt make it spraying foam(or in lawncare for that matter,,lol) so they climbed on board the gimic train and compromised their professional integrity and mine as well by chasin the almighty $$ to keep their butts afloat..
Lynn Mether Posted: Feb 01, 2012 03:02 PM	There is a local injection foam contractor in my area. He says that they have to be careful with how much water they use or it will shrink and also how thick a tall an area because it will have enough weight it will settle(such as a pole shed that is lined already, 9 ft spacing, 16 ft tall, and 8-10 in thick). As far as hurting the spray foam industry its not really spray foam. Thats the way this guy advertises. Its the next best alternative for an existing house. What does torque me is the companies advertising it formaldahyde free. Even though its miniscule amounts. Its still in it. Just try to start a franchise in Canada, Maine, or California. If you cant that means its got formaldahyde.
mark moyer Posted: Feb 02, 2012 03:30 PM	you mix X gallons of water with x bags of powder to make the schtuff,,,prescriptive from the manufacturere,,,like makin spf,,gotta do it right,,so too much water???? or it sags,,,??hmm i question if it is the "next best alternative" in existing homes.. due to cost,,and due to this shrinkage,,that is the point,,,if it shrinks it shrinks circumfirentially not in just one plane,,,,,you cant fix it easily but if you have lets say filterglass or cellulose at 1/4 the cost,,,well its gonna settle in 1 plane,,,and you can fix it perty easily,,, what is the number 1 thing to do at your job site DRY IT OUT,,,get your materials dry and keep em dry,,,keep the house dry as soon as you can,,, gee lets pump the walls full of this WATERGOO... makes sense to me???oh but its foam...cut their friggin tounges off,,,and tammy fae,,, any posts out there,,,got one comein they wouldnt let him post here,,,hey doug,,waz up can i post the truth??? or at least how this other poor SPRAY FOAM INSULATOR sees it??? common,,, cluck cluck cluck,,,, wadda they gonna do??? oh yeah,,,quit advertising,,,,no prob,,,
Lynn Mether Posted: Feb 02, 2012 05:17 PM	When I said "next best thing" I was quoting the injection salesman. Shoulda used quotes. As far as the amount of water used I have no idea about that. Again just spittin what I was told. Never looked into the system gonna stick with my A B system. What also concerns me is the "Easy water cleanup" advertised. What happens when a pipe breaks or my kids run the bathtub over AGAIN. Is my foam gone now? Nobody seems to answer me when I ask.
Caleb DeFord Posted: Feb 02, 2012 09:33 PM	Hey I had someone ask me what happens when injection foam gets wet too. If you have a fiend that does the stuff, have him get a dried piece of the glorified shaving cream and then get it wet and see what happens...and then let us know cause I'm very curious and I'm not the only one. By the way, if you want some testing on the shrinkage of this stuff go to the link at left. -Foamilyman
Caleb DeFord Posted: Feb 02, 2012 09:49 PM	Here's another link from the same group. Link at left: Retrofoam is a dishonest and un-ethical company. Tri-polymer is a much better group, and they haven't gotten sued out of Canada like the aforementioned Retrofoam. "Highest R-value on any insulation on the market!" R-5 per inch (if it's even truly that high) is the highest R-value on the market????? Somebody really ought to sue these guys. Foamilyman
mark moyer Posted: Feb 03, 2012 10:10 AM	ok this came to me via my email,,, i asked if i could post,,he said ok,,, dont shoot me im only the piano player,, fine,,shoot,,,i could give a ratz-azz copy below: I’m not a subscriber to spf. Any more, I use to be but like everybody else when things fell though we had to drop it. We live in a rural area, lots of older home, so thought I could get into inject foams. Bought my equipment from one company, found out they had one of the highest amounts of formaldehyde of any. So we did our research and found a company in Florida, they said they didn’t use formaldehydes, but you still had to add water. We did an older house, I was pretty happy the way the job went looked good. We put the plugs in and put the sideling back on. This house had a leak behind the sink. So they remodeled the kitchen. They opened up the walls and found that the foam that we put in 6 mounts had shank. Not just a little but a lot. The called us and we took it all out and put in ½ pound foam. These companies that sell you the injectable foam tell you, you have to sell this amount or they will find someone else in your area that will. After this house I felt bad that I sold crap. So that was the last time we put in any body’s home. I tried to put what I had left in my attic, thought what better place to get rid of it. I made a nice flat layer over my garage. It shank in to balls and the urine smell took months to go away. This stuff that they are selling is not foam. And it will heart all of us that spray. I just lost a big job in Denver that called for one of these foams. I called the school up and tried to talk to them about it. They wouldn’t listen to me, they said this is what the engineer called for and they wonted this. This is a school; we all paid for this to be put in though our taxes. We lost 20,, 000. In this, but I only put it in two homes, and both I went re did, so I can still sleep at night. I will only use a real foam company now like Lapolla or Bayer. We made all of our own tips and attachments so we can do older homes. I don’t care if you post what I said. I do know it will bit all of us in the butt, and not just the people that spray it. There is no difference in the stuff if it comes in a powder or is a drum prey mixed. Is crap and I feel very sorry for the people that have it in their homes, and think they got foam. Well feel better
mark moyer Posted: Feb 05, 2012 04:51 AM	.. must be a whole buncha $$$ bein made here,,, must be a whole buncha lemmings,,, or is it,,,we never looked??? or is we dont give a crap about our livelyhood? oh yeah were all in dallas buyin shaving cream pumps cause we cant sell spf...
quentin Posted: Feb 09, 2012 11:24 AM	Yeah, there have been a lot of discussions on this stuff over the years here and I won't touch it. One of the guys who has worked with me had it done to his home. In the winter you can feel where it shrank and it also cracked the walls. Contract says that is his problem not their's if it happens too. Add in his house being hit by an old lady that missed the curve while going through a major dementia episode so we helped tear down a lot of walls. They claim up to 3% shrinking, yeah, more like 10%-15% is what we saw. Huge company here in the state advertising all over the place and doing great on making money but I tell people to do blown in paper instead since you can top it off if it settles. Now, has anyone tried the new slow-rise injection foams some companies have come out with? I know LaPolla has one but I can't afford to play the test dummy for it in real world use for finding out if it is any good. I am looking at it since it is actual FOAM and not shaving cream but unless I have some who have acutally used it who can say if it is any good, sit back and see for us.
angus mcdougald Posted: Feb 12, 2012 11:40 AM	I've been using alot of demilec pour in place with great results..... We charge more and waste less.... It seems like a perfect untapped market.... I can feel the profit.... You really need an ir camera, and we like to check while working and after the foam cools... If you go for demilec, please tell them bright alternatives recommended them... I could use the brownie points, I am trying to get them to offer our customized contractor bpi training...
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 03, 2012 08:51 AM	Is the demilec pour foam an open or closed-cell product?
mark moyer Posted: Apr 03, 2012 11:02 AM	sirbrightness..to be clear..i have no problem with injection of polyurethane based foam products,,,these are dimensionally stable,,and will not shrink,,settle..or sag,, IF MANUFACTURED CORRECTLY AT THE TIME OF INSTALL JUST LIKE SPRAY POLYURETHANE FOAM... what i am "bealing" about is the AMINOPLAST" type of foams that are high content water based and not a polyurethane type foam...whom represent with shadey media advertising that they are similiar or EXCEED polyurethane foam in performance and tech specs... this is the soon to be boil on the "foam industrys butt",,watch and see,,,remember UFI?? again,,i had to sell against the wonders of ufi,,did you??? good luck with BPI,,and thamx for the cfm50'S
angus mcdougald Posted: Apr 04, 2012 11:07 PM	i was responding to quentin.... i almost bought in to the protein shake foam before i found out there was a poly product.... knowing more now then i did before i personally am glad to not have invested in the equipment.... graco sells a pour tip (the best 200 that graco ever ripped me off of) you cut up tubing and stick it on.... couple of second bursts in each hole till its full... if the bay is empty you can get away with a hole in the middle and 2 at the top of each stud bay outside or inside the house. with fibered walls you need holes every foot up.... (i try to not patch the holes or charge extra for that) we just did a project in a historic home where the front porch had antique bead boarding on the ceiling but a second story above... there was 15 feet of uninsulated floor across the whole front of the house... we had a floor guy remove 2 strips of floor at 4 ft and 10 ft, and used the foam to fill the horizontal.... im sure someone has done something like this before, but i invented the solution in my head while on an estimate.... only other way i guess would have been cellulose.... it worked well and was easy (i was nervous because it was a police officers house, and i was experimenting) i like the pour in place alot... if you think about it its an entirely different market from spray they sell open cell and closed cell BUT they say cc is not for normal walls only concrete or brick the easiest jobs are vinyl sided but it can be done anywhere... my crew is still messy and the tube sputters a little and overfills can shoot out but if the installer holds a rag around the tube on the way out, AND you keep some brakecleaner to wipe off the drips it goes smooth. i have blown out a few spots from too much foam (both times were hidden crossbracing); i also had a guy drill through an ac line that was in a bay... we charge a bunch extra for the extra labor but use less material
John Shockney Posted: Apr 05, 2012 10:26 AM	I have done some injection work too, But could not justify buying a set of the slow-rise open cell foam, so we just turn down the temps to around 110deg and use our regular open cell spray foam. Also I was told that some installers that have tried the slow-rise went back to the regular foam because they didn’t like waiting for the foam to react. We tell customers that we don’t warranty for blown out walls or cracked plaster (I don’t have x-ray vision) we can’t tell how well their plaster or drywall is attached. But when we tell people the cost and they compare it to the cellulose guys, we don’t get very many of those jobs. But we still do a few every year. Airpro Ps; Watch out for those over fills they can shoot out 20+feet!!!!