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Arthur Gillis Posted: Jan 17, 2007 09:22 PM	Starting Out I am in the early stages of putting together a spray foam business and have a few questions I was hoping the seasoned guys could help with. Starting out I plan on marketing residential builders in the high end new construction, renovation / addition projects. After about a year of spraying I would bid commercial work as it became available, sticking with the residential as long as it derived profit. I’ve been in large scale construction management for over 15 years and have quite a few contacts with large General Contractors building or renovating commercial buildings. It seems, due to cost, most residential sales are open cell ½ lb foam such as Icenyne or Demilec. I spoke with both and they each have enough licensed dealers in my area so my option to go with either is currently closed. I’ve spoken with quite a few other suppliers offering their own version of 1/2lb open cell and 2 lb closed cell. Would I be fighting an uphill battle to bring in a no name brand?? Is Icenyne and Demilecs marketing so strong that I would have a tough time selling another manufacturer?? What would be the best avenue for marketing?? Home shows, yellow pages, Blue Book, direct mail, pounding the pavement?? So many choices in spray rigs and equipment are available but I think Iv’e narrowed it down to an affordable system that offers room for growth. The rig I am leaning towards would consist of a 10000gvwr 20’ tag along w/ 40 KW diesel genset, compressor (Rotary v.s. piston), air dryer, E30 (200 ft hose),gun, pumps, agitators, hoses, etc. Is the savings substantial enough to build your own. Pricing for this type rig seems to be in the $55-66k range. Is it reasonible to think I can save $10k building my own?? Thanks for the look
Posted: Jan 18, 2007 10:17 PM	I think it is reasonable to save that if not more. I built a 32' gooseneck with 24kw diesel gen, 80 gallon horizontal compressor, e-20 with 210 feet hose, p2 gun, 6 sets of staging, ladders, all the tools (power and hand) extra air hoses, extension cords, diesel heaters, drum pumps, etc etc etc and have less than 30K invested. Everything was brand new except the trailer and staging which was lightly used. I did everything myself (installations, electrical, plumbing, insulation etc) Price it out and see for yourself! The benefit to building yourself is you will know the rig inside and out and will make life so much easier down the road if you have a problem. Tim
Craig Maturi Posted: Jan 19, 2007 02:35 PM	i myself am getting into the business and am buying a rig also. i think from oak ridge plastics and coatings. the price is for a turn key 20' e-20 rig set up with all the bells and whistles. i also priced it out in parts and it was about the same.
Chad Gritzmaker Posted: Feb 03, 2007 10:35 PM	I'm currently getting equipment around after about of a year of research and asking tons questions. Here's my opinion on a start up rig, the new H25, 210ft hose, IR 25cfm Gas Compressor, IR refridgerated dryer, Generac 17.5kw(will upgrade to 20/25kw when money starts coming in), 18 ft tag 1ft xtra height and insulated. I am planning on having comp. and genset in the front five feet, a dividing wall and drums, proportioner, hoses in the back. I have laid it all out to scale it should work well. It will be similiar to CPI's pro 18, and I shouldn't have much over 32K in it. You should be mechanically inclined to even think of getting into this business, so you should be able to put together a nice rig. Remember you should be able to buy the grace/gusmer equipment at about 25% off of list. I selected the H25 even though its 4 grand more than E20, Correct me if I'm wrong the E20 takes 96 strokes to pump 1 gal. and the h25 takes 16 to do the same. You do the math 1/5 the maintenance ?????
Posted: Feb 04, 2007 12:28 AM	I would double check that your generator will run that H25. If you have the 8000 watt heater you will be close, if you have the 15,300 watt heater it won't do it. Tim
Posted: Feb 04, 2007 10:42 AM	It seems to me like there's more than $10k in mark-up. The rigs that were built for $30-$35k would probably sell for no less than $50k. It might be worth taking a month off for. Leon
Chad Gritzmaker Posted: Feb 04, 2007 10:52 AM	The H25 8000w and 210 transformer will be pushing the capacity of the gen-set, hopefully it will get me by for a while. We are hoping the soft start 69 amps that the H25 pulls wont be to much for the gen-set, it is rated at 26kw for surge wattage. I'll let everyone know if it works or not. I've been watching for a used diesel 25kw, but the money is the big thing right now.
Trey Gibson Posted: Feb 04, 2007 11:49 AM	I understand that money is tight but it would be worth investing in the right size generator. We have a 30kw and sometimes I wonder if it is undersized. We have 40kw's on our other rigs and it seems that that is the appropriate size.
Thomas Kasper Posted: Feb 04, 2007 04:48 PM	I use on-site power. I haven't had a problem with that yet.
Arthur Gillis Posted: Feb 04, 2007 09:20 PM	Who did you buy from. I am not finding the 25% off list.
Arthur Gillis Posted: Feb 04, 2007 09:51 PM	Who did you get your H25 from and how much??
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Feb 04, 2007 09:51 PM	I too use on site power and haven't lost any work because of it. Geo
Thomas Kasper Posted: Feb 04, 2007 10:29 PM	If I had to pay for a generator and the fuel to put in it constantly I would have to charge more. I think I would lose some jobs because of it. Good luck to everyone building their new rig and getting into the spray foam insulation business.
Timothy Sonney Posted: Feb 04, 2007 11:58 PM	We too use Shore Power, and have yet to experience a problem. We thought about a generator, but its much easier to slap a breaker in the box as well as cheaper than running and maintaining a generator....
Posted: Feb 05, 2007 04:42 PM	does this take longer to get off the ground. how many of you would do this again, becaue I think I want to get in this business. I am from the roofing side of thinks, but think this may be a better choice. any input would be nice
Frankie Aladi Posted: Feb 22, 2007 04:38 PM	Here is my 2 cents. I have been doing the one thing which I am pretty good at and that is research and based on that the only Rig I have see that is worth paying someone to set up is the one BHI uses. Go to bayhaborinsualtion.com to check it out. It is from Profoam.com. However Profoam does not have a blow out to see it properly. This rig is very well laid out. Apart from this rig, my thinking is that if you pay someone else to set up all the stuff I have been seeing online, then you either have too much money to burn or you have no mechanical inclination of any kind. I personlay dont mind paying money but if I pay 60K, I want to see at least 55K worth of rig.
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 22, 2007 09:19 PM	Call Jed at Oak ridge Plastics, i got a turn key 20' rig with gen set for 36k, everywhere else in the country the same rig was 45-60k.
Posted: Feb 22, 2007 09:57 PM	Foam-Pro What was included in that 36K rig? What equipment? Tim Granite State Spray Foam Co.
Craig Maturi Posted: Feb 22, 2007 11:17 PM	20' 10,000lb trailer fully insulated with dividing wall, 15kw Generac gen, 11hp comp, graco E20 with 200' hose, 2man air system, work bench, eye wash station, lights, free set of foam, 2:1 stick pumps, hose rack, etc... i think i got a good deal!
Todd Baxter Posted: Mar 03, 2007 11:44 AM	anyone using glascraft equipment??? I am not sure on what unit to buy.
Posted: Mar 05, 2007 11:12 PM	where are you located?
SprayFoamSupply.com Posted: Mar 05, 2007 11:14 PM	I am using a glascraft MH2 and P2 gun. Very pleased with both. George
Chad Hymel Posted: Jun 01, 2008 11:42 PM	Hi, i've been in the foam buisness for a little over 3 years as a sales rep and with some spray time clocked behind the gun. I'm now in the process of starting up a new company with some investors and I am contemplating which type of equipment to outfit our rig with. I am somewhat familiar with the greco e-20 and e-30 units with the fusion guns however i've been looking into the new hydrolic gama equipment. Specifically the evolution G-140H. I have heard they have fewer problems to deal with. Does any one have some insight on this? Does anyone own this equipment? any advice? i'm also debating on using APEX foam. I've sold other higher dollar foams such as demilac and ucsc/bayer and i know that cost is usually the issue in selling a job. Its a battle either way you look at it. but i'm still up in the air right now. any insight would help. Thanks
ron brown Posted: Jun 03, 2008 05:19 AM	I my self have been spraying foam since 2/07/2007 and it has been one hell of an experience. It is hard to begin to tell this story and it will probably have to become a mini-series. I made the mistake of losing my composure and started naming names on a post that was deleted and will not make that mistake this time. My advise to anyone thinking of getting into this business is GET EDUCATED! THAT IS NOT BY GOING TO A SUPPLIER AND BUYING A RIG AND GETTING TWO DAYS TRAINING. This is certain death.That is the problem with this industy, everybody wants to sell you foam but nobody seems to care wether you make it or not because some other fool will come in right behind you and go broke buying foam and just hurt this industry even more than what has already happened.I am a brickmason by trade and started building houses after back surgery in 1994, so I am not afraid of hard work[homes from 3500sq ft to 12000sq ft].Bought my first rig with a partner who had lots of money but no desire to work in the foam business. He made all the calls to begin with and said we should start off as cheap as we could.He bought into a program that was selling a small rig with a machine[not a Graco]that had day tanks with a portable generator. After about six months with virtually no money being made he instucted me to take the rig back and leave it in their lot[way to many problems to even begin].My ex-partener then started talking to someone he met through that supplier and bought another rig from a fast talker that said he could build the best rig known to foamkind[little did my partner know that this guy is who taught the other guys how to build their rigs].We got the new rig and it had a Graco E-30 with shore power and seemed like a whole differant world. But after spraying for a short while we were still not making any real profits.I beleived in foam so much that I thought it was just a learning curve so I borrowed the money to buy my partner out.I started to deal with that fast talker and when I told him of the problems that I was having, he told the same thing that I always heard, it was the gun or the temperture of the foam. After many jobs I was still having problems that I started noticing[chaulky foam].I then decided to try other foam suppliers and was having the same result. I went back to the fast talker who now had been bought out by the first people that my ex-partner bought our first rig from and I was treated like a red headed step child. I took my rig over to their place of business and they went through all of the tests that I had already went through[way to many to mention in this post].They ended up saying that I had trash in my hose and it was not their problem and charged me over $2,100 labor for repair that they did nothing to[I flushed my lines with a cleaner for 4 hours and then a plastsizer for 4 more hours before I took the rig to them].I then called Graco and told them of the problems that I was having. Graco steped up in a big way[ because my rig was only six months old]and sent me to another machanic that knew what my problem was immediatly.I had a 1/2 inch reducer right out of the stick pumps with 5 elbows on the B side and almost 25 ft of cast iron pipe. No matter how hot I would get the material it was still spraying off ratio and the proportioner would not code. I know for a fact that the same suppliers have built many rigs all over the southeast and poor guys like me are out there thinking that it is all their fault that they just can not seem to get it right.I hope people can learn from my mistakes,cheaper is not better and fast talkers have never learned how to listen.GOOD LUCK TO ALL!
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 09:26 PM	You need to call Lapolla right away.. Lapolla can not only build you a rig but also supply all your foam and cotings..call 8884lapolla Its the right choice.
Luke Kujacznski Posted: Jun 04, 2008 10:57 AM	why? Who are you?
Eric Sparks Posted: Jun 05, 2008 02:16 PM	i also have a rig from profoam and i am more then happy with the rig they built. i do agree that more then 2 days of training is needed. i found a fellow foamer a couple of states away that was willing to give me some on the job training, it was free labor for him and free training for me. it worked out great and made a good friend.
richard sucher II Posted: Jun 05, 2008 02:49 PM	Have been in the foam business since 1979 and have some comments about starting in business. first, while equipment is important much more investigation needs to be done before you take the leap of faith. Money is easy to get and foam is promoted by some as the next best thing to sliced bread. Not so fast, my fine feathered friend as Lee Corso says. 1. Foam is not the only way to insulate a building and other materials can be used to achieve a tight building envelope. The manufacturer's of these systems are not giving up on their share of the pie. 2. There are many hidden costs of doing business. Make a list and check it twice to make sure you have all the costs covered, not just the big bucks that are going to come rolling in. There is a difference between making money - money in the bank, owning own building, retirement programs (SEP IRA or 401k)- as oppposed to only making a wage. 3. This is a full time career. You will have to sell jobs, manage employees, get jobs done, collect money, maintain equipment, make architectural calls, purchase insurance, deal with code officials - exciting and fun but also emotionally and physically draining. 4. Find out just how many foamers there are in your area and also realize that foamers tend to "hunt buffalo" - will travel distances to do work so don't be surprised if out of towners are in your backyard. 5. Materials are fickle and require constant monitoring. Research suppliers that have proven track record and strong technical support. Consider establishing relationships with more that one supplier as at any given time one of them will be ahead of the curve on technology. This industry is constantly changing due to the nature of the products we are spraying. 6. "Bad business is easy to find" - check out who you are working for; talk to other trades - ask about customer's payment history. File liens if necessary. Residential work can be very problematic payment wise. 7. Working in a commercial setting is nowhere the same as working in a residential setting. These jobs tend to go on forever schedule wis; the schedule is never as advertised - warm weather schedule ends up in mid-January, etc. Other trades can really screw up job progress. Be careful to throw out a bid without talking to GC as to how you are figuring the job - if you are not on the same page, your dream job can go to heck real quick. Change orders are near impossible to get. I could go on longer on this subject but I will not. Heck, wouldn't want to deny you the fun of graduating from the "school of hard knocks". Do your homework about the realities of running your own business - do not get caught up in the hype.
Bryan Kwater Posted: Jun 06, 2008 09:49 AM	Couldn't have said it better myself. Lots of costs, problems, and HEADACHES when you own a small business.