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Author	Comments
Tammy Demers Posted: Sep 24, 2012 04:22 PM	Stud Allowance Hi Everyone, Have not been in here in AGES (formerly spfprincess75)! Been keeping very busy and for that we are very grateful. We finished up a large university project last summer and the sub we worked for is trying to skip out on paying. There were absolutely no issues with workmanship, performance or timeliness. They are just a really bad company and we found a little too late. We are in the middle of litigation now. Totally sucks. Since they have absolutely ZERO reason to pay us, they have come up with their big excuse. They want to deduct 35% of the contract value for a STUD ALLOWANCE (yes I am yelling!!)stating that is industry standard. Well, we've been doing this since 1975 and it has never been industry standard. Yes, we do deduct for windows and doors, but never studs. Has something changed in the industry that we are not aware of, lol? So, since this may have to go to trial in the very near future, I was hoping to get you all to post below whether or not you have ever gave a deduct for studs and if you feel that a stud allowance has been industry standard. I would like to be able to present something that shows that according to the industry, it is NOT industry standard. Any help would be appreciated.
Lane Hogstad Posted: Sep 24, 2012 07:02 PM	Never nor will i.
richard sucher II Posted: Sep 25, 2012 01:38 PM	We have been in business since 1979 and under no circumstance has there ever been an industry standard for reducing area to be sprayed by stud amount. For the most part, our standard procedure has been to take out windows and doors for a net square footage of area to be sprayed. As part of the bidding process, one could get tougher and take out for the studs but that is not something that we would do. Regardless as to whether or not one opted to take out for studs, this would be done when calculating the final price of the bid. No way that the studs could be backed out of the price - the bid price is for the cavities to be sprayed. The only person that would have any say as to whether or not to include the studs in the net area to be insulated would be the bidder, not his sub. This sub is way out of line; sorry that you find yourself in this situation as litigation can be expensive. Plus, even if you prevail, you still have to fight to get paid. Suffice it to say, I do hope that you filed mechanics lien on the project as soon as payment was late per contract. These days, "bad work is easy to find".
Mark Mouton Posted: Sep 27, 2012 02:30 PM	That's a bad deal. Undoubtedly you must have bid the job per sq. ft. But with that aside, if you figure the amount of lumber in a home, including door and window jams, it would add up to 12-13% after you subtract windows and door openings. If you figure just studs, you are about 10%. If it is steel studs, subtract nothing. Whoever these people are don't know anything about framing. Talk to a company that installs fiberglas batt insulation and they can give exact numbers.
Tammy Demers Posted: Sep 27, 2012 02:46 PM	The project was bid contract price. They took the total footage and price and came up with their own sq price to use for deducting the studs. They are a fiberglass insulation company who bid the project, won the contract then said oops, we don't don't do spray foam. Here is the crappy thing. The owner of the company did email me asking about stud allowance in the very beginning. Of course, my reply to him was no there is no stud allowance. I keep ALL emails relating to every project we have ever done. I rely on Carbonite for all my back ups. In August of last year, I had a hard drive failure. When I retrieved my Outlook Data File from Carbonite, it was corrupt! Carbonite could not help me and neither could a couple of friends who are more computer literate than I. I lost ALL of my emails previous to 8/11. And of course, that was one of them. Figures. I could go on and on and write an entire book on this issue. We did have our bases covered pretty well and my local attorney said it was a pretty cut and dry case. They really don't have a leg to stand on. The issue now is how long will they drag it out (ie cost me more legal fees) before they admit they are flat out wrong. The last word we've received from the defendents attorney is that he doesn't understand why we do not seem to want to negotiate. Hmmmm...I don't understand why I should feel the need to negotiate! So frustrating. I'd appreciate all the posts I can get here. It would be helpful to be able to show that it is not industry standard to offer a stud deduct. Windows and doors...sure. Studs, no.
mason Posted: Sep 27, 2012 09:43 PM	My father started in the sprayfoam businees in 1962. I started in 1970. Never have heard of a stud allowance for sprayfoam, never have seen it in a bid specification. In fact depending on the thickness of the foam, studs may actually make you use more foam due to the trimming. If you need an independent industry expert consultant, contact me at masonknowles@aol.com
Circle-D Posted: Sep 27, 2012 10:19 PM	No stud allowance from my little corner of the country!
Tammy Demers Posted: Sep 28, 2012 02:03 PM	Thank you Mason and thank you everyone. I hope this will be helpful. Any others who are reading this thread, please feel free to post your opinion. The more the better. We are very appreciative of your time in posting here for us!
Chicago Spray Foam Posted: Sep 28, 2012 07:35 PM	There are a few companies that perform hard drive forensics that can recover all the data on a crashed hard drive, even after a fire or flood. It may well be worth the small investment to send it in. Good Luck
Matthew Gowin Posted: Nov 16, 2014 02:43 PM	"Negotiate"??? The only thing you all should be negotiating on is how much they are going to have to pay you for spending all this time and energy dealing with this. Make sure you get ALL of your attorney fees and court fees in the judgment along with interest. My wife sued a lady for money while I was deployed in 04 and never got her money but then it wasn't clear how she was supposed to collect either. I told her recently to pull the order out and send it to all three of the major creditors. No one and I mean no one will lend you money with a pending judgment. Buddy of mine got one for like $20 from a cell phone company and his job wouldn't hire him until he paid it. When we purchased our house we had a Upromise credit card that changed banks and closed it saying we owed them a balance of $0 and we even had to clear that up first which wasn't hard since it was $0. Good luck to you.

Author

Comments

Tammy Demers

Posted: Sep 24, 2012 04:22 PM

Stud Allowance

Hi Everyone,

Have not been in here in AGES (formerly spfprincess75)! Been keeping very busy and for that we are very grateful.

We finished up a large university project last summer and the sub we worked for is trying to skip out on paying. There were absolutely no issues with workmanship, performance or timeliness. They are just a really bad company and we found a little too late.

We are in the middle of litigation now. Totally sucks.

Since they have absolutely ZERO reason to pay us, they have come up with their big excuse. They want to deduct 35% of the contract value for a STUD ALLOWANCE (yes I am yelling!!)stating that is industry standard.

Well, we've been doing this since 1975 and it has never been industry standard. Yes, we do deduct for windows and doors, but never studs. Has something changed in the industry that we are not aware of, lol?

So, since this may have to go to trial in the very near future, I was hoping to get you all to post below whether or not you have ever gave a deduct for studs and if you feel that a stud allowance has been industry standard.

I would like to be able to present something that shows that according to the industry, it is NOT industry standard.

Any help would be appreciated.

Lane Hogstad

Posted: Sep 24, 2012 07:02 PM

Never nor will i.

richard sucher II

Posted: Sep 25, 2012 01:38 PM

We have been in business since 1979 and under no circumstance has there ever been an industry standard for reducing area to be sprayed by stud amount.
For the most part, our standard procedure has been to take out windows and doors for a net square footage of area to be sprayed. As part of the bidding process, one could get tougher and take out for the studs but that is not something that we would do.
Regardless as to whether or not one opted to take out for studs, this would be done when calculating the final price of the bid. No way that the studs could be backed out of the price - the bid price is for the cavities to be sprayed.
The only person that would have any say as to whether or not to include the studs in the net area to be insulated would be the bidder, not his sub.
This sub is way out of line; sorry that you find yourself in this situation as litigation can be expensive. Plus, even if you prevail, you still have to fight to get paid. Suffice it to say, I do hope that you filed mechanics lien on the project as soon as payment was late per contract. These days, "bad work is easy to find".

Mark Mouton

Posted: Sep 27, 2012 02:30 PM

That's a bad deal. Undoubtedly you must have bid the job per sq. ft.
But with that aside, if you figure the amount of lumber in a home, including door and window jams, it would add up to 12-13% after you subtract windows and door openings. If you figure just studs, you are about 10%. If it is steel studs, subtract nothing.
Whoever these people are don't know anything about framing.
Talk to a company that installs fiberglas batt insulation and they can give exact numbers.

Tammy Demers

Posted: Sep 27, 2012 02:46 PM

The project was bid contract price. They took the total footage and price and came up with their own sq price to use for deducting the studs.

They are a fiberglass insulation company who bid the project, won the contract then said oops, we don't don't do spray foam.

Here is the crappy thing. The owner of the company did email me asking about stud allowance in the very beginning. Of course, my reply to him was no there is no stud allowance. I keep ALL emails relating to every project we have ever done. I rely on Carbonite for all my back ups. In August of last year, I had a hard drive failure. When I retrieved my Outlook Data File from Carbonite, it was corrupt! Carbonite could not help me and neither could a couple of friends who are more computer literate than I. I lost ALL of my emails previous to 8/11. And of course, that was one of them. Figures.

I could go on and on and write an entire book on this issue. We did have our bases covered pretty well and my local attorney said it was a pretty cut and dry case. They really don't have a leg to stand on. The issue now is how long will they drag it out (ie cost me more legal fees) before they admit they are flat out wrong.

The last word we've received from the defendents attorney is that he doesn't understand why we do not seem to want to negotiate. Hmmmm...I don't understand why I should feel the need to negotiate! So frustrating.

I'd appreciate all the posts I can get here. It would be helpful to be able to show that it is not industry standard to offer a stud deduct. Windows and doors...sure. Studs, no.

mason

Posted: Sep 27, 2012 09:43 PM

My father started in the sprayfoam businees in 1962. I started in 1970. Never have heard of a stud allowance for sprayfoam, never have seen it in a bid specification. In fact depending on the thickness of the foam, studs may actually make you use more foam due to the trimming.

If you need an independent industry expert consultant, contact me at masonknowles@aol.com

Circle-D

Posted: Sep 27, 2012 10:19 PM

No stud allowance from my little corner of the country!

Tammy Demers

Posted: Sep 28, 2012 02:03 PM

Thank you Mason and thank you everyone. I hope this will be helpful. Any others who are reading this thread, please feel free to post your opinion. The more the better.

We are very appreciative of your time in posting here for us!

Chicago Spray Foam

Posted: Sep 28, 2012 07:35 PM

There are a few companies that perform hard drive forensics that can recover all the data on a crashed hard drive, even after a fire or flood. It may well be worth the small investment to send it in.

Good Luck

Matthew Gowin

Posted: Nov 16, 2014 02:43 PM

"Negotiate"???

The only thing you all should be negotiating on is how much they are going to have to pay you for spending all this time and energy dealing with this. Make sure you get ALL of your attorney fees and court fees in the judgment along with interest.

My wife sued a lady for money while I was deployed in 04 and never got her money but then it wasn't clear how she was supposed to collect either. I told her recently to pull the order out and send it to all three of the major creditors. No one and I mean no one will lend you money with a pending judgment. Buddy of mine got one for like $20 from a cell phone company and his job wouldn't hire him until he paid it. When we purchased our house we had a Upromise credit card that changed banks and closed it saying we owed them a balance of $0 and we even had to clear that up first which wasn't hard since it was $0.

Good luck to you.

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