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JohnPeters Posted: Apr 16, 2009 04:57 PM	The Mighty Icynene All, Has anyone heard of the new Icynene 0.5 lb formula? LD-R 50. It is supposed to be a "green" product with polyol origination coming from castor beans. A vegetable used by many manufacturers to make "green" foam. After all the bad mouthing about green foams, now icynene has jumped on the band wagon. Whats next...icynene closed cell? I will roll over in my grave if that ever happens. No one has been a bigger nay sayer of CC then the icynene people. Anyway, I recently found out that icynene's green formula can yield 20k bd/ft per set. Can anyone substantiate this claim? How can this be without the density of the foam dropping down to 0.3 lb? I have been losing some bids to these bastards over the last month and this new product must be the reason. Unless the other big dogs (Demilec, etc, etc) come out with a product that can yield that much foam per set, or significantly drop the prices of their product I don't see a way to compete against 20k bd/ft. thoughts?
Frank Bood Posted: Apr 16, 2009 10:14 PM	The ldr-50 is not yeilding no 20k ft its the same yeild as the original crap. It is easyer to cut for some reason. I have to be honest if you losing bids to an icy dealer its not the ldr-50 doing it or price. I know our guys sell for 8-11 cent more a bd ft. People are SOLD on whats best for them. We have idiots up here selling flash and batt with 2" of 2lb foam over the sheet rock and we all know the issues here. We have tones of work im guessing just due to the fact we have tons of sales guys each one with a different pitch it seems.I use icy because its what the company has us selling but i love me some demilec. If you looking to slam icy the stuff dont stick to itself to well and leaves voids/pockets. And yes i paddle it..... Good luck to you
JohnPeters Posted: Apr 17, 2009 06:22 AM	I don't slam anyone in front of customers. Negative energy begets negative energy. However, I feel comfortable "opening up" to you guys. Icy has done wonders for the SPF industry - So I thank them for that. No one entertains local area architects more than them. As long as the arch's don't have "use icynene only" on their prints, I'll be happy. Well, that is good to hear that LDR50 yields the same as everyone else. I wonder why the local icy sales dude told me that. MMm? thanks.
mason Posted: Apr 17, 2009 07:24 AM	Yield is based on the density of the product. It is simple math. 0.5 lb density foam is supposed to weigh 1/2 lb per cubic foot of reacted material. Most sprayfoam will spray out slightly higher than their labeled density because a higher density skin is formed on the substrate when installed (on on the surface of the foam). If Icynene's new foam is getting better yield than than older formula, it would only be due to a lower density skin forming on the substrate/foam interface and better control during application that minimizes high and low areas of the foam. But if you do the math any 0.5 foam would yield 20,000 bd ft per kit if there were no waste. If 1/2 lb of material sprays out to 12 bd ft (the equivalent of 1 cubic ft) then 1000 lbs yield 24,000 bd ft. But in the real world there is a lot of waste and the lower the density the harder it is to get a perfect 5 to 10 inches of foam without going too much over or under.
Frank Bood Posted: Apr 17, 2009 05:49 PM	I have to agree with the REAL world. I would guess any company could state 20,000 bd ft if applied by a pro with less then 3% waste, but we all know how icy love to sell the "full cavity". I spray fair and only shave about 1-1 1/2" of waste max to cut and shave a nice full looking bay. We average about 17000bd ft per set with our good sprayers and 14-15000 with the new guys.
JohnPeters Posted: Apr 24, 2009 09:23 AM	FYI ONLY 7% OF THE NEW "GREEN" ICYNENE FORMULA IS DERIVED FROM RENEWABLE RESOURCES.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 27, 2009 02:04 PM	Since you are on the topic of Icynene, I have an archive of stated untruths that have come from them and/or their contractors. The list is getting longer... regards, og
Michael Fusco Posted: May 01, 2009 01:14 PM	I feel like I have to say this....so please bear with me. How green is green, and what is green??? Many manufacturers are using the term quite loosely. "I'm using a sucrose intitiated amine so I have green content since sucrose is a bio product" or my favorite..." I'm using recycled plastic polyol...so I'm green". There is an ASTM test which was developed to "count" Bio-renewable molecules on a product. That test is an ASTM D-6866. Notice I didn't say green. Ask your manufacturer for his test results! There is no definition of what Green is, and until someone (read a government agency with enforcement capability) actually defines the term, everyone will twist it to their advantage. Not just in our industry, but in any industry. The ASTM D-6866 counts carbon dated atoms and gives you a number. Interesting since water has no carbon. Is water green?....you see where this goes. I do know that Icynene's product uses a castor oil based polyol. Hey....it's foam....it's still better than Fglass or any other insulation I know of......
bob brown Posted: May 19, 2009 03:29 PM	sorry meant to post in root...
JohnPeters Posted: May 19, 2009 05:56 PM

Author

Comments

JohnPeters

Posted: Apr 16, 2009 04:57 PM

The Mighty Icynene

All,

Has anyone heard of the new Icynene 0.5 lb formula? LD-R 50.

It is supposed to be a "green" product with polyol origination coming from castor beans. A vegetable used by many manufacturers to make "green" foam.

After all the bad mouthing about green foams, now icynene has jumped on the band wagon. Whats next...icynene closed cell? I will roll over in my grave if that ever happens. No one has been a bigger nay sayer of CC then the icynene people.

Anyway, I recently found out that icynene's green formula can yield 20k bd/ft per set. Can anyone substantiate this claim?

How can this be without the density of the foam dropping down to 0.3 lb?

I have been losing some bids to these bastards over the last month and this new product must be the reason.

Unless the other big dogs (Demilec, etc, etc) come out with a product that can yield that much foam per set, or significantly drop the prices of their product I don't see a way to compete against 20k bd/ft.

thoughts?

Frank Bood

Posted: Apr 16, 2009 10:14 PM

The ldr-50 is not yeilding no 20k ft its the same yeild as the original crap. It is easyer to cut for some reason. I have to be honest if you losing bids to an icy dealer its not the ldr-50 doing it or price. I know our guys sell for 8-11 cent more a bd ft. People are SOLD on whats best for them. We have idiots up here selling flash and batt with 2" of 2lb foam over the sheet rock and we all know the issues here. We have tones of work im guessing just due to the fact we have tons of sales guys each one with a different pitch it seems.I use icy because its what the company has us selling but i love me some demilec.

If you looking to slam icy the stuff dont stick to itself to well and leaves voids/pockets. And yes i paddle it.....

Good luck to you

JohnPeters

Posted: Apr 17, 2009 06:22 AM

I don't slam anyone in front of customers. Negative energy begets negative energy.

However, I feel comfortable "opening up" to you guys.

Icy has done wonders for the SPF industry - So I thank them for that. No one entertains local area architects more than them. As long as the arch's don't have "use icynene only" on their prints, I'll be happy.

Well, that is good to hear that LDR50 yields the same as everyone else. I wonder why the local icy sales dude told me that. MMm?

thanks.

mason

Posted: Apr 17, 2009 07:24 AM

Yield is based on the density of the product. It is simple math. 0.5 lb density foam is supposed to weigh 1/2 lb per cubic foot of reacted material. Most sprayfoam will spray out slightly higher than their labeled density because a higher density skin is formed on the substrate when installed (on on the surface of the foam).

If Icynene's new foam is getting better yield than than older formula, it would only be due to a lower density skin forming on the substrate/foam interface and better control during application that minimizes high and low areas of the foam.

But if you do the math any 0.5 foam would yield 20,000 bd ft per kit if there were no waste. If 1/2 lb of material sprays out to 12 bd ft (the equivalent of 1 cubic ft) then 1000 lbs yield 24,000 bd ft.

But in the real world there is a lot of waste and the lower the density the harder it is to get a perfect 5 to 10 inches of foam without going too much over or under.

Frank Bood

Posted: Apr 17, 2009 05:49 PM

I have to agree with the REAL world. I would guess any company could state 20,000 bd ft if applied by a pro with less then 3% waste, but we all know how icy love to sell the "full cavity". I spray fair and only shave about 1-1 1/2" of waste max to cut and shave a nice full looking bay.

We average about 17000bd ft per set with our good sprayers and 14-15000 with the new guys.

JohnPeters

Posted: Apr 24, 2009 09:23 AM

FYI

ONLY 7% OF THE NEW "GREEN" ICYNENE FORMULA IS DERIVED FROM RENEWABLE RESOURCES.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 27, 2009 02:04 PM

Since you are on the topic of Icynene, I have an archive of stated untruths that have come from them and/or their contractors. The list is getting longer...

regards,

og

Michael Fusco

Posted: May 01, 2009 01:14 PM

I feel like I have to say this....so please bear with me.

How green is green, and what is green???

Many manufacturers are using the term quite loosely. "I'm using a sucrose intitiated amine so I have green content since sucrose is a bio product" or my favorite..." I'm using recycled plastic polyol...so I'm green".

There is an ASTM test which was developed to "count" Bio-renewable molecules on a product.

That test is an ASTM D-6866. Notice I didn't say green. Ask your manufacturer for his test results!

There is no definition of what Green is, and until someone (read a government agency with enforcement capability) actually defines the term, everyone will twist it to their advantage. Not just in our industry, but in any industry.

The ASTM D-6866 counts carbon dated atoms and gives you a number. Interesting since water has no carbon. Is water green?....you see where this goes.

I do know that Icynene's product uses a castor oil based polyol. Hey....it's foam....it's still better than Fglass or any other insulation I know of......

bob brown

Posted: May 19, 2009 03:29 PM

sorry meant to post in root...

JohnPeters

Posted: May 19, 2009 05:56 PM

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