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Bryan Kwater Posted: Aug 19, 2012 05:15 PM	Trailer floor We are beginning to build a new foaming trailer. I know this has been discussed in parts in other threads, but what do you like for flooring? Our current trailer has 3/4" plywood with polyurea on the interior and about 1" of spray foam underneath. It works fine and has held up pretty well. We are in Michigan and deal a lot with snow, so I don't want something too slippery. Whatever it is, we will end up foaming the bottom side again. Anything you do and don't like?
SPRAYFOAM GODDESS Posted: Aug 20, 2012 02:32 PM	I like to see a double floor and either paint it gray or finish with clear coat...they sure look purdy rolling off the finish line! Don't know about a couple months into it.
Circle-D Posted: Aug 20, 2012 10:55 PM	I'm in Maine and just built a new rig with electric radiant in floor heat. I put 1/8" aluminum diamond plate over the electric mats to protect them from the 500 lb drums and also for even heat dissipation. Winter is just around the corner so we will see how it works out. I to am concerned that the aluminum will be slippery as whale snot with a little rain or snow on it. I may have to paint it and throw a litttle grit in it. To bad, cause as Robin says that shiny aluminum sure is purdy
John Shockney Posted: Aug 21, 2012 07:06 AM	Hay Skip, I know that we have had this debate before, but how many total watts of heat and how many watts per square foot were you able to get with the electric mats? Who did you get them from? Who is the manufacture? And are they recommended for this type of installation? We just built our new trailer rig and installed oak T&G ($0.99/sqft from Lumber Liquidators) over 4-100ft loops of ½ inch PEX for a hot water radiant floor and have a 20,000 watt electric boiler to heat it with. I haven’t got the boiler hooked up yet, had to spray some foam to pay the bills, but it shouldn’t take long and winter is still a few months away. I put some video on you-tube about the build that you can find if you search airprosprayfoam at you-tube. We finished the oak floor with oil based polyurethane and added some silicone sand to one coat followed by some more poly, we installed the same oak floor over the existing plywood in our last trailer with only one coat of poly and it lasted over 6years of use and the new owner of the trailer hasn’t had to do anything to the floor. Airpro
Circle-D Posted: Aug 22, 2012 10:43 PM	The heat mat is manufactured by Calorique out of West Wareham, Mass. 12 watts per sq.ft, total of 70 sq.ft. There is 10 sq.ft. on each wall behind the A and B drums, 50 sq.ft. on the floor under the drums and in the aisle. They say it will work, we will see. They have not done a sprayfoam trailer before. I am their prototype (guinee pig). The genset will supply power during running hours. For after hours heat we installed a small tranfer switch which is plugged into shore power thru a motor base plug on the outside of the trailer. This transfer swich powers the trailer lights, heat and one recepticle so we can run our paint sprayer after the foam is finished and not have to run a 40kw genset. I looked at your video when you first posted it. Did not really have room in the rig for a boiler.
John Shockney Posted: Aug 23, 2012 08:04 AM	Skip, I sure like it when someone else is the guinea pig please keep us informed on how this system works this winter. By the way your 40kw gen set is a boiler! What do you do with all that wasted heat? Exhaust it to the outside world? All you have to do is add a pump and piping and you have all the heat you would ever need. And you can build a very compact 110 or 220 volt electric boiler using electric water heater elements, galvanized pipe, and a few off the shelf controls, to run off shore power when you are not running the gen. or just install a kim-hot start (large block heater) on the generator for backup heat. I bought a small wall mounted electric boiler/instant water heater (12,000 watts) that I plan to convert to run on only 110volts 1500watts to maintain trailer temp and a full 8,000watts when connected to 220volt power (I don’t have a generator installed.) This wall mount boiler only takes a 16x16x8 inch space and should fit into the wasted space over the wheel wells behind the drums. At 12 watts per square foot your 70sqft is only providing 840 watts of heat that is less than most 110 volt plug-in electric heaters, and I just don’t think that is enough to raise the temp of 2000+ pounds of foam from warehouse temps of around 50degs to spray temps of 70degs or more in cold weather. So let us do the math to raise the temp 20deg for 2000lbs of foam you need 40,000btu’s of heat(20x2000) your 840watts produces 2,856btu’s per hour (840x3.4) and with no heat loss to the outside will take 14 hours to heat up (40,000 divided by 2856) I just don’t think that the numbers add up to a system that I would be happy with when we pick up as much as 5000lbs of foam at a time, but please keep us informed this winter. Airpro
Circle-D Posted: Aug 24, 2012 10:59 PM	Yes the genset does produce waste heat when it is running and I think you have a decent system, it just wasn't for me, no offense. I also think you are right with your calculations. I thought it was a little light on heat myself. I will still keep my $12, 1500 watt Wal-Mart heater in the cabinet. I keep minimum of 4 sets in the shop at all times. I buy 10-12 at a time so they have plenty of time to warm from the cold shipping trucks till I use them. I keep my storage building at 60 degrees also. The rig is parked inside this 60 degree building if it is not on the jobsite. The 60 degree drums ride from the heated storage to the heated rig on site. Generally no more than an hour ride. We don't run the rig out of foam so we always have at least 1/2 set or more to spray before we need to get into the new drums. According to your calculations if I only need to go 10 degrees I should get it in 7 hours. Once we start spraying the rig warms up significantly, thus shortening this time some more. I don't know, I'm just a dumb applicator. They gave me the stuff to try it, I provided installation labor, they say it will work.We will see when winter comes. I figure I got 50/50 chance, it either will or it won't. Then we go back to the Wal-mart standby's
John Shockney Posted: Aug 28, 2012 10:18 AM	Hi Skip Sounds like the price was right and if we could store our foam in a warm shop to preheat it I would have gone the way you did. But we are close to a well-stocked warehouse (kept at 50deg) and don’t have room (or time) to preheat foam days ahead of the job. In the past we have used the 1500watt electric heaters or a propane heater and recirculate chems to get up to spray temps. My hope is that our new heating system will allow us to pick up foam one day run the heat overnight and be spraying the next day. I hate those Wal-Mart standby’s they are always in my way or they quit working when you need them the most. Skip, you could run hot water from your gen to a blower coil unit that is about the same size as those Wal-Mart heaters and it would put out a lot more heat. Just a thought and it wouldn’t cost a lot, easy to install too. Airpro
Circle-D Posted: Aug 30, 2012 10:14 PM	Airpro, Thanks for your suggestions. I've been working on this rig between paying jobs since May. Now the time has come to work WITH it instead of ON it. We sprayed our first job with it today. Didn't need the infloor heat of course but everything else worked out fine. Time will tell.
james keegan Posted: Nov 09, 2012 12:21 AM	hey Airpro quick quesion re the recirc of chems to warm them up. I'm in a similar boat using wall mount electric heat off hours to keep trailer warm. The material is still too cool to spray. I dont have the recirc hose back to the drum, just into empty's jugs to balance psi if needed. Does recirc increase the temp quickly?? I use a Graco H25 can i use any hose back to the drum? the stock hose looks like inexpensive plastic tubing.
Circle-D Posted: Nov 11, 2012 06:58 PM	The H-25 has the ability to produce 2000psi. The recirc hoses should be rated for that in case some other component fails. Be sure to turn your "B" heater down so it will not froth the chemical. The 245 boils at a low temp, remember. This does increase the temp faster than any other way. The best thing is not to let it get to cold to start with.
mark moyer Posted: Nov 12, 2012 06:53 AM	jk,,,take a looky,,if you circ at the red or blue valve and the hose i think you are describeing,,you would be heating the drum and supply line,,,bypassing your hoseset assembly..this would get your drum temps up the best,,,you may want to circ the hoseset for a few clicks once you get things up in the drum and bring it up as well.. you dont describe your trailer conditions or where you spray,,your ambient,,we run drum heaters on our drums,,,they require more electricity,,ie bigger genset,,more attention,,specially if runnin closed cell..heat is your freind with polyurethanes,,like paint,,they think 50 degrees is cold..if your trailer isnt insulated well,,do it,,i think you can,,,think about it,,how long will that drum hold the temp from your warm material room if you put it in a well insulated trailer..now you can heat it with a milk room low amp heater at the job site..you got thermal mass on both side off your trailer...keep it warm,,it aint hard,, as suggested i would beef my hose up from stock,, so if it gets pinched it dont rupture and leak even if it is low pressure...will coil nice to to get out of the way,, 21 degrees,,,woo hoo,,,should i get the heatwagon out??

Author

Comments

Bryan Kwater

Posted: Aug 19, 2012 05:15 PM

Trailer floor

We are beginning to build a new foaming trailer. I know this has been discussed in parts in other threads, but what do you like for flooring? Our current trailer has 3/4" plywood with polyurea on the interior and about 1" of spray foam underneath. It works fine and has held up pretty well. We are in Michigan and deal a lot with snow, so I don't want something too slippery. Whatever it is, we will end up foaming the bottom side again. Anything you do and don't like?

SPRAYFOAM GODDESS

Posted: Aug 20, 2012 02:32 PM

I like to see a double floor and either paint it gray or finish with clear coat...they sure look purdy rolling off the finish line! Don't know about a couple months into it.

Circle-D

Posted: Aug 20, 2012 10:55 PM

I'm in Maine and just built a new rig with electric radiant in floor heat. I put 1/8" aluminum diamond plate over the electric mats to protect them from the 500 lb drums and also for even heat dissipation. Winter is just around the corner so we will see how it works out.
I to am concerned that the aluminum will be slippery as whale snot with a little rain or snow on it. I may have to paint it and throw a litttle grit in it. To bad, cause as Robin says that shiny aluminum sure is purdy

John Shockney

Posted: Aug 21, 2012 07:06 AM

Hay Skip,

I know that we have had this debate before, but how many total watts of heat and how many watts per square foot were you able to get with the electric mats? Who did you get them from? Who is the manufacture? And are they recommended for this type of installation?

We just built our new trailer rig and installed oak T&G ($0.99/sqft from Lumber Liquidators) over 4-100ft loops of ½ inch PEX for a hot water radiant floor and have a 20,000 watt electric boiler to heat it with. I haven’t got the boiler hooked up yet, had to spray some foam to pay the bills, but it shouldn’t take long and winter is still a few months away. I put some video on you-tube about the build that you can find if you search airprosprayfoam at you-tube.

We finished the oak floor with oil based polyurethane and added some silicone sand to one coat followed by some more poly, we installed the same oak floor over the existing plywood in our last trailer with only one coat of poly and it lasted over 6years of use and the new owner of the trailer hasn’t had to do anything to the floor.

Airpro

Circle-D

Posted: Aug 22, 2012 10:43 PM

The heat mat is manufactured by Calorique out of West Wareham, Mass. 12 watts per sq.ft, total of 70 sq.ft. There is 10 sq.ft. on each wall behind the A and B drums, 50 sq.ft. on the floor under the drums and in the aisle. They say it will work, we will see. They have not done a sprayfoam trailer before. I am their prototype (guinee pig).
The genset will supply power during running hours. For after hours heat we installed a small tranfer switch which is plugged into shore power thru a motor base plug on the outside of the trailer. This transfer swich powers the trailer lights, heat and one recepticle so we can run our paint sprayer after the foam is finished and not have to run a 40kw genset.
I looked at your video when you first posted it. Did not really have room in the rig for a boiler.

John Shockney

Posted: Aug 23, 2012 08:04 AM

Skip,

I sure like it when someone else is the guinea pig please keep us informed on how this system works this winter.

By the way your 40kw gen set is a boiler! What do you do with all that wasted heat? Exhaust it to the outside world? All you have to do is add a pump and piping and you have all the heat you would ever need.

And you can build a very compact 110 or 220 volt electric boiler using electric water heater elements, galvanized pipe, and a few off the shelf controls, to run off shore power when you are not running the gen. or just install a kim-hot start (large block heater) on the generator for backup heat.

I bought a small wall mounted electric boiler/instant water heater (12,000 watts) that I plan to convert to run on only 110volts 1500watts to maintain trailer temp and a full 8,000watts when connected to 220volt power (I don’t have a generator installed.) This wall mount boiler only takes a 16x16x8 inch space and should fit into the wasted space over the wheel wells behind the drums.

At 12 watts per square foot your 70sqft is only providing 840 watts of heat that is less than most 110 volt plug-in electric heaters, and I just don’t think that is enough to raise the temp of 2000+ pounds of foam from warehouse temps of around 50degs to spray temps of 70degs or more in cold weather. So let us do the math to raise the temp 20deg for 2000lbs of foam you need 40,000btu’s of heat(20x2000) your 840watts produces 2,856btu’s per hour (840x3.4) and with no heat loss to the outside will take 14 hours to heat up (40,000 divided by 2856)

I just don’t think that the numbers add up to a system that I would be happy with when we pick up as much as 5000lbs of foam at a time, but please keep us informed this winter.

Airpro

Circle-D

Posted: Aug 24, 2012 10:59 PM

Yes the genset does produce waste heat when it is running and I think you have a decent system, it just wasn't for me, no offense.
I also think you are right with your calculations. I thought it was a little light on heat myself. I will still keep my $12, 1500 watt Wal-Mart heater in the cabinet. I keep minimum of 4 sets in the shop at all times. I buy 10-12 at a time so they have plenty of time to warm from the cold shipping trucks till I use them. I keep my storage building at 60 degrees also. The rig is parked inside this 60 degree building if it is not on the jobsite. The 60 degree drums ride from the heated storage to the heated rig on site. Generally no more than an hour ride. We don't run the rig out of foam so we always have at least 1/2 set or more to spray before we need to get into the new drums. According to your calculations if I only need to go 10 degrees I should get it in 7 hours. Once we start spraying the rig warms up significantly, thus shortening this time some more. I don't know, I'm just a dumb applicator. They gave me the stuff to try it, I provided installation labor, they say it will work.We will see when winter comes. I figure I got 50/50 chance, it either will or it won't. Then we go back to the Wal-mart standby's

John Shockney

Posted: Aug 28, 2012 10:18 AM

Hi Skip

Sounds like the price was right and if we could store our foam in a warm shop to preheat it I would have gone the way you did.

But we are close to a well-stocked warehouse (kept at 50deg) and don’t have room (or time) to preheat foam days ahead of the job. In the past we have used the 1500watt electric heaters or a propane heater and recirculate chems to get up to spray temps. My hope is that our new heating system will allow us to pick up foam one day run the heat overnight and be spraying the next day.

I hate those Wal-Mart standby’s they are always in my way or they quit working when you need them the most.

Skip, you could run hot water from your gen to a blower coil unit that is about the same size as those Wal-Mart heaters and it would put out a lot more heat. Just a thought and it wouldn’t cost a lot, easy to install too.

Airpro

Circle-D

Posted: Aug 30, 2012 10:14 PM

Airpro,
Thanks for your suggestions. I've been working on this rig between paying jobs since May. Now the time has come to work WITH it instead of ON it. We sprayed our first job with it today. Didn't need the infloor heat of course but everything else worked out fine. Time will tell.

james keegan

Posted: Nov 09, 2012 12:21 AM

hey Airpro quick quesion re the recirc of chems to warm them up. I'm in a similar boat using wall mount electric heat off hours to keep trailer warm. The material is still too cool to spray. I dont have the recirc hose back to the drum, just into empty's jugs to balance psi if needed. Does recirc increase the temp quickly?? I use a Graco H25 can i use any hose back to the drum? the stock hose looks like inexpensive plastic tubing.

Circle-D

Posted: Nov 11, 2012 06:58 PM

The H-25 has the ability to produce 2000psi. The recirc hoses should be rated for that in case some other component fails.
Be sure to turn your "B" heater down so it will not froth the chemical. The 245 boils at a low temp, remember. This does increase the temp faster than any other way. The best thing is not to let it get to cold to start with.

mark moyer

Posted: Nov 12, 2012 06:53 AM

jk,,,take a looky,,if you circ at the red or blue valve and the hose i think you are describeing,,you would be heating the drum and supply line,,,bypassing your hoseset assembly..this would get your drum temps up the best,,,you may want to circ the hoseset for a few clicks once you get things up in the drum and bring it up as well..
you dont describe your trailer conditions or where you spray,,your ambient,,we run drum heaters on our drums,,,they require more electricity,,ie bigger genset,,more attention,,specially if runnin closed cell..heat is your freind with polyurethanes,,like paint,,they think 50 degrees is cold..if your trailer isnt insulated well,,do it,,i think you can,,,think about it,,how long will that drum hold the temp from your warm material room if you put it in a well insulated trailer..now you can heat it with a milk room low amp heater at the job site..you got thermal mass on both side off your trailer...keep it warm,,it aint hard,,
as suggested i would beef my hose up from stock,,
so if it gets pinched it dont rupture and leak even if it is low pressure...will coil nice to to get out of the way,,
21 degrees,,,woo hoo,,,should i get the heatwagon out??

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