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Author	Comments
SPFer Posted: Nov 20, 2008 04:06 PM	use for overspray shavings We throw alot of overspray shavings away. We sprayed a large house with 2x4" exterior walls which we filled and cut flush with open cell. Ended up with about 50 large, very light, garbage bags in the dumpster. I don't mind the waste, I factor it into the bid. But would like to find a better solution than filling the landfills with it. Any suggestions?
travis fails Posted: Nov 20, 2008 09:57 PM	I tell my homeoweners to put it in the attic after they sheetrock. It might help but it wont hurt.
Posted: Mar 23, 2009 07:48 PM	maybe you can switch to closed cell so there is less of the trimming? I don't think I'm gonna even offer open cell anywhere but in the attic. Maybe a good think or not? I too get tired of the waste, I look at it all piled in the middle of the project and say to myself, "I wonder how many gallons this is?"
john thompson Posted: Mar 24, 2009 09:40 AM	Hopefully your applicator isn't over filling by more than 1" or 2"(I have seen some people overfill by 4"-6"). I for one refused to take any trimmings after a full fill off the premises. I was selling this as a "GREEN" petroleum based product,how could I justify throwing the trimmings in a landfill? My contracts stated that all trimmings would be cleaned up, bagged, and left at the jobsite for the owner to dispense in the attic, crawlspace, etc... We also used to give it to habitat homes or other low income houses to add to the insulation they already had in the attics.
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Apr 27, 2009 02:28 PM	"crawlspaces" ? oG
Michael Fusco Posted: Jun 28, 2009 03:18 PM	Guys....you are aware that the fire charecteristics of "trimmings" in nothing like the charecteristics of a mass of foam (sprayed in a cavity)....be very very careful what you recommend. Alternatively.....spread trimmings in an area and spray them in (attic floor, garage attic floor, around new bathtub, sound wall, etc.)
Daniel X Posted: Sep 06, 2010 11:59 PM	Start spraying a foam that doesn't require you to trim 50% of what you sprayed and bag it.
mason Posted: Sep 07, 2010 08:40 AM	Coincidently I have an article coming out on recycling SPF in Sprayfoam magazine (December, 2010, I believe). My research indicates that spraying over foam shavings in attics would not be accepted by building codes. (urethaneman hit the nail on the head, no fire testing of the application.) We typically don't recommend spraying foam over fiberglass and I would consider this to be a similar application. I would think the foam shavings would have a perm rating similar to fiberglass, and it might be hard to determine the vapor drive characteristics of the system if you sprayed foam over the shavings. But, we should as an industry consider what to do with our scrap foam trimmings from jobsites. In the past we didn't have that much of it to be a problem But now, we are beginning to send large amounts of scrap foam to landfills. My article makes some suggestions and steps forward to address this situation.
SPFer Posted: Sep 07, 2010 09:15 AM	Mason- looking forward to the article. dl123- Do you have any helpful suggestions besides for saying we shouldn't spray foam that needs to be shaved? I assume you are suggesting we should be spraying closed cell. How do you propose we stay busy spraying a product that is twice as expensive as open cell (which is already an expensive product)? We run into enough issues selling foam over fiberglass due to cost?
Daniel X Posted: Sep 07, 2010 10:28 PM	I just don't see the point of spending any money on a product that creates just as much waste as good material. We're trying to tell people that foam is environmentally friendly, and at the same time we're hauling bags and bags of it to the dump. And sorry, but you wont ever catch me throwing chunks of foam into mine or anyone else's attic. I'm not sure how you're going to stay busy if you choose to only spray foam that actually creates an air barrier, and doesn't create massive amounts of waste, that's not what this thread is about.
mason Posted: Sep 08, 2010 08:11 AM	I wasn't asked the question but spray technique can really save a lot of scrap foam. Even with open cell foam, you can get the amount of waste down quite a bit with practice.
Daniel X Posted: Sep 08, 2010 07:26 PM	Of course technique matters, you could have a bunch of waste with 2lb. if you're sprayer didn't know what he was doing... I guess lots of folks do the old learn as you go approach, and leave a wake of rough jobs in their past.
mason Posted: Sep 09, 2010 08:49 AM	I added the comment about spray technique because I have been surprised the last few years at some of roughness of the foam and the lack of uniform thickness on many jobs I have inspected. A typical applicator should be able to spray closed cell foam to within a 1/2 inch tolerance between 16" stud walls at a 2 inch thickness and to within a 1" tolerance at 3.5 inches with open cell. A good applicator would be able to reduce that tolerance in half. It is an important thing to consider when training your crews. Not only is the scrap foam adding to landfills but every bit of foam thrown away comes out of the potential profit of the job. The easiest way to increase profits on a job is to have better spray technique.
Terry Adams Posted: Sep 09, 2010 11:09 PM	50% overspray = not for long in business. Did yall see the foam job on DIY Blog cabin show, I didn't see it being done but when they were doing the kitchen before the ceiling went up I had to rewind the DVR and look again. Thick, non uniform and the foam didn't look right. Just me or did anybody else notice it.
steven argus Posted: Sep 10, 2010 10:22 AM	Spray a 1# or 1.2# foam and keep it in the studs.
philip mullins Posted: Feb 03, 2011 04:06 PM	hmm... interesting thread. mason has noticed..., ill go ahead and say what he meant, CRAPPY WORK! and hes surprised? only requirement u need to get started in this business is a good enough credit score or a large enough down payment to buy the rig. and the same suppliers that are promising u all the help, telling u its easy, just point and shoot and ull make $1000 a day! those same guys are courting any one who will listen and trying their hardest to sell rigs to as many peeps near you as they can. and then they wanna charge ridiculous $ for the chemical, so they will have more money to market and find more peeps to sell rigs too. and we are surprised to see crappy work? and what do we end up with? "i just sprayed a house and i have 50 bags of shavings" maybe u should spray better! and if u think cc cost double what oc cost... u aint pricing ur jobs right. get better or go away. it will be 1 or the other and the guy who says he just leaves it for the home owner to deal with... fine, and good luck. but suggesting that they spread it in the attic! ignorance is not bliss in this business. best case scenario, i sprayed an unvented attic but had the customer insulate the ceiling so now that unvented attic doesnt work properly! worst case scenario... you get a few people killed! husband wife, maybe a few kids. but hey, u didnt feel like dealing with all the mess, and u didnt know of the dangers so, hey. we are doomed!
Brian Currie Posted: Feb 04, 2011 07:51 AM	What good is o.c. in a 2x4 exterior wall except soundproof sponge?
philip mullins Posted: Feb 04, 2011 03:16 PM	if i spray it, and design ur hvac, 30-40% reduction in the utility bill versus fiberglass or cellulose. GUARANTEED! dont get me wrong, i would rather see u put cc in, even though i make more $ on an oc job. but not everyone can afford the extra 30% average additional cost for cc.
Terrance Harris Posted: Feb 05, 2011 03:21 AM	How do you guarantee a 30 to 40% reduction in a utility bill when there has never been a utility bill?
maurice richter Posted: Feb 05, 2011 09:52 PM	Anyone tried giving or selling the shavings as a packing material? UPS Store I used to use encouraged me to give them any packing peanuts I did not want. Office stores sell bags of packing peanuts. Switch to clear trash bags (lots of restaurants use clear trash bags - go figure) and market it as a byproduct of an energy saving insulation installation... Find a way to market your business name on the label!
Posted: Feb 06, 2011 06:27 AM	packing material,,, animal bedding,, attic insulation,,, ground for soil/media filler,, the list goes on and on,, but in the end,,, it dont pay to pay to scrape/cut it once,,,bag it ,,,haul it,,,store it,,,maybe rebag to resell,,time to market,,cost to market,,did i say cost and space to store this mountain of material,,,cost to deliver or be on site to resell or give away,,,liability for having them on your property,,,and the list goes on,,, and we will give you $1.50 for that 55gallon bag!!!oh boy were in the $$$ (oh,,,and how we gonna wedge those 10 bags into that there preus?)
philip mullins Posted: Feb 06, 2011 08:42 PM	gunslinger, there are programs out there that can calculate energy usage from plans with good accuracy. some manufacturers and service providers can provide you with "models" of individual homes showing kw usage with fiberglass, cellulose, or foam. i think some of these services are advertised on this website. basically, you can guarantee the electric bill for a year or 2. if the program calculates an $80 power bill u can guaranty to pay the difference past that number
Terrance Harris Posted: Feb 07, 2011 06:21 PM	troutkiller, very interesting, thanks for the info.

Author

Comments

SPFer

Posted: Nov 20, 2008 04:06 PM

use for overspray shavings

We throw alot of overspray shavings away. We sprayed a large house with 2x4" exterior walls which we filled and cut flush with open cell. Ended up with about 50 large, very light, garbage bags in the dumpster. I don't mind the waste, I factor it into the bid. But would like to find a better solution than filling the landfills with it.

Any suggestions?

travis fails

Posted: Nov 20, 2008 09:57 PM

I tell my homeoweners to put it in the attic after they sheetrock. It might help but it wont hurt.

Posted: Mar 23, 2009 07:48 PM

maybe you can switch to closed cell so there is less of the trimming? I don't think I'm gonna even offer open cell anywhere but in the attic. Maybe a good think or not? I too get tired of the waste, I look at it all piled in the middle of the project and say to myself, "I wonder how many gallons this is?"

john thompson

Posted: Mar 24, 2009 09:40 AM

Hopefully your applicator isn't over filling by more than 1" or 2"(I have seen some people overfill by 4"-6"). I for one refused to take any trimmings after a full fill off the premises. I was selling this as a "GREEN" petroleum based product,how could I justify throwing the trimmings in a landfill?
My contracts stated that all trimmings would be cleaned up, bagged, and left at the jobsite for the owner to dispense in the attic, crawlspace, etc...
We also used to give it to habitat homes or other low income houses to add to the insulation they already had in the attics.

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Apr 27, 2009 02:28 PM

"crawlspaces" ?

oG

Michael Fusco

Posted: Jun 28, 2009 03:18 PM

Guys....you are aware that the fire charecteristics of "trimmings" in nothing like the charecteristics of a mass of foam (sprayed in a cavity)....be very very careful what you recommend.

Alternatively.....spread trimmings in an area and spray them in (attic floor, garage attic floor, around new bathtub, sound wall, etc.)

Daniel X

Posted: Sep 06, 2010 11:59 PM

Start spraying a foam that doesn't require you to trim 50% of what you sprayed and bag it.

mason

Posted: Sep 07, 2010 08:40 AM

Coincidently I have an article coming out on recycling SPF in Sprayfoam magazine (December, 2010, I believe). My research indicates that spraying over foam shavings in attics would not be accepted by building codes. (urethaneman hit the nail on the head, no fire testing of the application.)

We typically don't recommend spraying foam over fiberglass and I would consider this to be a similar application. I would think the foam shavings would have a perm rating similar to fiberglass, and it might be hard to determine the vapor drive characteristics of the system if you sprayed foam over the shavings.

But, we should as an industry consider what to do with our scrap foam trimmings from jobsites. In the past we didn't have that much of it to be a problem But now, we are beginning to send large amounts of scrap foam to landfills. My article makes some suggestions and steps forward to address this situation.

SPFer

Posted: Sep 07, 2010 09:15 AM

Mason- looking forward to the article.

dl123- Do you have any helpful suggestions besides for saying we shouldn't spray foam that needs to be shaved? I assume you are suggesting we should be spraying closed cell. How do you propose we stay busy spraying a product that is twice as expensive as open cell (which is already an expensive product)? We run into enough issues selling foam over fiberglass due to cost?

Daniel X

Posted: Sep 07, 2010 10:28 PM

I just don't see the point of spending any money on a product that creates just as much waste as good material.

We're trying to tell people that foam is environmentally friendly, and at the same time we're hauling bags and bags of it to the dump.

And sorry, but you wont ever catch me throwing chunks of foam into mine or anyone else's attic.

I'm not sure how you're going to stay busy if you choose to only spray foam that actually creates an air barrier, and doesn't create massive amounts of waste, that's not what this thread is about.

mason

Posted: Sep 08, 2010 08:11 AM

I wasn't asked the question but spray technique can really save a lot of scrap foam. Even with open cell foam, you can get the amount of waste down quite a bit with practice.

Daniel X

Posted: Sep 08, 2010 07:26 PM

Of course technique matters, you could have a bunch of waste with 2lb. if you're sprayer didn't know what he was doing...

I guess lots of folks do the old learn as you go approach, and leave a wake of rough jobs in their past.

mason

Posted: Sep 09, 2010 08:49 AM

I added the comment about spray technique because I have been surprised the last few years at some of roughness of the foam and the lack of uniform thickness on many jobs I have inspected. A typical applicator should be able to spray closed cell foam to within a 1/2 inch tolerance between 16" stud walls at a 2 inch thickness and to within a 1" tolerance at 3.5 inches with open cell. A good applicator would be able to reduce that tolerance in half.

It is an important thing to consider when training your crews. Not only is the scrap foam adding to landfills but every bit of foam thrown away comes out of the potential profit of the job. The easiest way to increase profits on a job is to have better spray technique.

Terry Adams

Posted: Sep 09, 2010 11:09 PM

50% overspray = not for long in business. Did yall see the foam job on DIY Blog cabin show, I didn't see it being done but when they were doing the kitchen before the ceiling went up I had to rewind the DVR and look again. Thick, non uniform and the foam didn't look right. Just me or did anybody else notice it.

steven argus

Posted: Sep 10, 2010 10:22 AM

Spray a 1# or 1.2# foam and keep it in the studs.

philip mullins

Posted: Feb 03, 2011 04:06 PM

hmm... interesting thread. mason has noticed..., ill go ahead and say what he meant, CRAPPY WORK! and hes surprised? only requirement u need to get started in this business is a good enough credit score or a large enough down payment to buy the rig. and the same suppliers that are promising u all the help, telling u its easy, just point and shoot and ull make $1000 a day! those same guys are courting any one who will listen and trying their hardest to sell rigs to as many peeps near you as they can. and then they wanna charge ridiculous $ for the chemical, so they will have more money to market and find more peeps to sell rigs too. and we are surprised to see crappy work?

and what do we end up with? "i just sprayed a house and i have 50 bags of shavings" maybe u should spray better! and if u think cc cost double what oc cost... u aint pricing ur jobs right. get better or go away. it will be 1 or the other

and the guy who says he just leaves it for the home owner to deal with... fine, and good luck. but suggesting that they spread it in the attic!
ignorance is not bliss in this business. best case scenario, i sprayed an unvented attic but had the customer insulate the ceiling so now that unvented attic doesnt work properly! worst case scenario... you get a few people killed! husband wife, maybe a few kids. but hey, u didnt feel like dealing with all the mess, and u didnt know of the dangers so, hey.

we are doomed!

Brian Currie

Posted: Feb 04, 2011 07:51 AM

What good is o.c. in a 2x4 exterior wall except soundproof sponge?

philip mullins

Posted: Feb 04, 2011 03:16 PM

if i spray it, and design ur hvac, 30-40% reduction in the utility bill versus fiberglass or cellulose. GUARANTEED!

dont get me wrong, i would rather see u put cc in, even though i make more $ on an oc job. but not everyone can afford the extra 30% average additional cost for cc.

Terrance Harris

Posted: Feb 05, 2011 03:21 AM

How do you guarantee a 30 to 40% reduction in a utility bill when there has never been a utility bill?

maurice richter

Posted: Feb 05, 2011 09:52 PM

Anyone tried giving or selling the shavings as a packing material? UPS Store I used to use encouraged me to give them any packing peanuts I did not want. Office stores sell bags of packing peanuts. Switch to clear trash bags (lots of restaurants use clear trash bags - go figure) and market it as a byproduct of an energy saving insulation installation... Find a way to market your business name on the label!

Posted: Feb 06, 2011 06:27 AM

packing material,,,
animal bedding,,
attic insulation,,,
ground for soil/media filler,,
the list goes on and on,,
but in the end,,,
it dont pay to pay to scrape/cut it once,,,bag it ,,,haul it,,,store it,,,maybe rebag to resell,,time to market,,cost to market,,did i say cost and space to store this mountain of material,,,cost to deliver or be on site to resell or give away,,,liability for having them on your property,,,and the list goes on,,,
and we will give you $1.50 for that 55gallon bag!!!oh boy were in the $$$
(oh,,,and how we gonna wedge those 10 bags into that there preus?)

philip mullins

Posted: Feb 06, 2011 08:42 PM

gunslinger, there are programs out there that can calculate energy usage from plans with good accuracy. some manufacturers and service providers can provide you with "models" of individual homes showing kw usage with fiberglass, cellulose, or foam. i think some of these services are advertised on this website.

basically, you can guarantee the electric bill for a year or 2. if the program calculates an $80 power bill u can guaranty to pay the difference past that number

Terrance Harris

Posted: Feb 07, 2011 06:21 PM

troutkiller, very interesting, thanks for the info.

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