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Greg Richardson Posted: Jan 21, 2010 07:26 PM	Vaulted Ceiling and Shingle Warranty I was going to use spray foam in a vaulted ceiling and attic creating a sealed or hot roof system. Building Inspector approved, Owens Corning did not and says I will void the shingle warranty. Great. Now what. My back ground is in kitchen and bath remodeling, not insulation (although I am head over heels with green building and am considering getting into the foam business). So, I'm looking for a little advice. Is the over heating of the shingle issue that concerns OC pure BS that I should just ignore? My sub seems to think so, but can't gurantee anything. Should I just install baffles and spray over them? I would lose 1 inch of foam in a 2x8 joist system, but gain the airspace OC wants. Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Layton Warren Posted: Jan 21, 2010 09:14 PM	I have sprayed numerous ceiling decks in the north as we have lots of older story and a half houses where it is impossible to seal and insulate with conventional methods. I have an article which may be of help to you, it basically states that it is more a colour of shingle rather than the ventilation below it that affects the temperature of it. Please feel free to visit the following sitewww.professionalroofing.net/archives/past/mar02/feature2.asp. Don't feel alone there is always an argument but I am surprised that it is coming form the chemical manufacturer and not the inspector. Good luck.
Terry Adams Posted: Jan 22, 2010 12:29 AM	I get that question all the time and I reference that article also. Using common sense all my customers go with the foam on the deck system. Looking at their warranty info probably needs a lawyer, and you have to call them to get a definition for proper attic ventilation as they don't have it written on the warranty, good times. My 15 year warranty shingles lasted 25 and then it took Katrina to do them in. Dark brown shingles in color and inadequate ventilation in 2 rooms had no effect on the life of the shingles. I call it BS.
Dennis Davidson Posted: Jan 22, 2010 09:46 AM	I read an article last year stating that installing foam to the roof deck can actually increase the life span of shingles. If I can find it again I'll post it.
mason Posted: Jan 22, 2010 11:15 AM	While there is good building science evidence to dispute the theory that unvented attic assemblies reduce the shingle life, some shingle manufacturers continue to void a warranty if the shingles are attached to an unvented attic or cathedral ceiling. I have written a few white papers and articles on this topic and others not in the sprayfoam industry such as Carl Cash have debunked the theory. But, it still remains a fact that some shingle manufacturers will not stick by their warranty even though they do not void their warranties for color, the direction the roof faces, the location and climate or the slope of the roof. Research has shown that these factors affect the temperature of the shingles many times more than having an unvented attic. So, as a responsible contractor, provide the owner with the facts and let them make the decision based on the pluses and minuses. You can install baffles and spray to it thereby venting the roof deck and keeping the warranty intact. (Note: most shingle warranties cover materials only and are pro-rated). So, depending on the age of the roof, the warranty may not cover much.)
John Shockney Posted: Jan 22, 2010 03:32 PM	I would not spray over baffles due to some studies have found that this increases the moisture in the roof system instead of venting it out. Check sprayfoam.org document on unvented attics at: http://www.sprayfoam.org/uploads/pages/4480/AY%20141%20Rev%20Dec%202008%20-%20FINAL.pdf John Airpro spray foam
jimcoler I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs. I've expanded my knowledge into t Posted: Jan 24, 2010 11:26 AM	Most shingle manufacturers now are recognizing the value of the foam solutions now that they've also gotten into it. Let's look at Certainteed. They haven't backed their warranty on unvented roofs until recently. then again, they alow unvented roofs now with only a 10% reduction in warranty. That's 3 years on a 30 year warranty and it's still prorated. So even if you make a claim at around 27 years, that's only $500 on a $5000 roof. I'm not sure about you, but I'm willing to take those odds - especially since there is evidence and data to prove it actually lengthens the life of the roof. So, not sure about the rest of you guys, but I call it BS and a sales pitch.

Author

Comments

Greg Richardson

Posted: Jan 21, 2010 07:26 PM

Vaulted Ceiling and Shingle Warranty

I was going to use spray foam in a vaulted ceiling and attic creating a sealed or hot roof system. Building Inspector approved, Owens Corning did not and says I will void the shingle warranty. Great. Now what. My back ground is in kitchen and bath remodeling, not insulation (although I am head over heels with green building and am considering getting into the foam business). So, I'm looking for a little advice. Is the over heating of the shingle issue that concerns OC pure BS that I should just ignore? My sub seems to think so, but can't gurantee anything. Should I just install baffles and spray over them? I would lose 1 inch of foam in a 2x8 joist system, but gain the airspace OC wants. Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Layton Warren

Posted: Jan 21, 2010 09:14 PM

I have sprayed numerous ceiling decks in the north as we have lots of older story and a half houses where it is impossible to seal and insulate with conventional methods. I have an article which may be of help to you, it basically states that it is more a colour of shingle rather than the ventilation below it that affects the temperature of it. Please feel free to visit the following sitewww.professionalroofing.net/archives/past/mar02/feature2.asp.
Don't feel alone there is always an argument but I am surprised that it is coming form the chemical manufacturer and not the inspector. Good luck.

Terry Adams

Posted: Jan 22, 2010 12:29 AM

I get that question all the time and I reference that article also. Using common sense all my customers go with the foam on the deck system.

Looking at their warranty info probably needs a lawyer, and you have to call them to get a definition for proper attic ventilation as they don't have it written on the warranty, good times.
My 15 year warranty shingles lasted 25 and then it took Katrina to do them in. Dark brown shingles in color and inadequate ventilation in 2 rooms had no effect on the life of the shingles. I call it BS.

Dennis Davidson

Posted: Jan 22, 2010 09:46 AM

I read an article last year stating that installing foam to the roof deck can actually increase the life span of shingles. If I can find it again I'll post it.

mason

Posted: Jan 22, 2010 11:15 AM

While there is good building science evidence to dispute the theory that unvented attic assemblies reduce the shingle life, some shingle manufacturers continue to void a warranty if the shingles are attached to an unvented attic or cathedral ceiling.

I have written a few white papers and articles on this topic and others not in the sprayfoam industry such as Carl Cash have debunked the theory.

But, it still remains a fact that some shingle manufacturers will not stick by their warranty even though they do not void their warranties for color, the direction the roof faces, the location and climate or the slope of the roof. Research has shown that these factors affect the temperature of the shingles many times more than having an unvented attic.

So, as a responsible contractor, provide the owner with the facts and let them make the decision based on the pluses and minuses. You can install baffles and spray to it thereby venting the roof deck and keeping the warranty intact.

(Note: most shingle warranties cover materials only and are pro-rated). So, depending on the age of the roof, the warranty may not cover much.)

John Shockney

Posted: Jan 22, 2010 03:32 PM

I would not spray over baffles due to some studies have found that this increases the moisture in the roof system instead of venting it out. Check sprayfoam.org document on unvented attics at: http://www.sprayfoam.org/uploads/pages/4480/AY%20141%20Rev%20Dec%202008%20-%20FINAL.pdf

John
Airpro spray foam

jimcoler

I have over 10 years of experience specifying and installing open and closed cell spray foam. I've sold my business but I'm still selling for the new owners and consulting on large and custom specific jobs.

I've expanded my knowledge into t

Posted: Jan 24, 2010 11:26 AM

Most shingle manufacturers now are recognizing the value of the foam solutions now that they've also gotten into it. Let's look at Certainteed. They haven't backed their warranty on unvented roofs until recently. then again, they alow unvented roofs now with only a 10% reduction in warranty. That's 3 years on a 30 year warranty and it's still prorated. So even if you make a claim at around 27 years, that's only $500 on a $5000 roof. I'm not sure about you, but I'm willing to take those odds - especially since there is evidence and data to prove it actually lengthens the life of the roof.

So, not sure about the rest of you guys, but I call it BS and a sales pitch.

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