very Odd issue, Please help | Ask Mason Knowles - SPF Consultant | Spray Foam Technical Questions and Answers | SprayFoam Magazine Q&A Forums

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John_N Posted: Jul 19, 2017 12:20 PM	very Odd issue, Please help I have a 3 years old home in Houston, with Bayer open cell polyurethane foam in the attic, the foam is sprayed directly on the roof deck "on the sheathing". The Roof is Shingled. it is unvented attic, and the foam is sprayed at about 6 inches thick. I had no issue with foam smell or humidity for the two years I lived in the house. Three month ago, I replaced the roof due to hail damage. the roofer replaced the shingles and the felt paper. nothing special just your standard re-roofing. that is when the problem started. immediately after putting the new roof, same day, we start smelling a very strong chemical oder in the house. the Smell was very strong that we had to leave the house. it was mainly in the attic. but of course it made its way down to the main living area. The oder was burning our eyes, throats and made it very hard to breath. hard to explain the order, it is like chemical, TAR, sweet and lumber combined smell. The roofer came back and we checked everything from AC units to plumbing. everything checked okay. but the oder was still very strong in the attic, finally after a month of trying to figuring out what happened and to get the smell out of the attic, we cut the roof top. and installed exhaust fans and Louvers to circulate the air out of the attic. which of course helped a lot. I also installed a blow-in insulation on the attic floor to keep the moisture and hot air from getting into the house. The smell has getting much better and almost gone. but we still don't know what happened. Is it roofing fumes that got into the house through the foam, or was it something related to the foam off-gassing? Any idea of where the order came from, also what is the implication of having the attic vented? I am afraid to seal it back incase the order is still somehow being released in the attic.
mason Posted: Jul 19, 2017 01:29 PM	Not sure where the odor comes from. It doesn't sound like a foam type odor. Plus I doubt it you would have no odor from the foam initially and 2 years later an odor. It may be from mastic that is used on flashing around your roof penetrations. The mastic is an asphalt based product and would have that type of odor. The roofer might also have spilled something that is causing the odor. I could analyze a sample of the foam to determine if there was an issue, but you could do the same thing. Take a sample of foam and place it in a plastic bag. Heat it to around 100 degrees F and then smell it. If there is no chemical odor then it isn't coming from the foam. (although open cell foam and blown-in insulation can absorb odors and transmit them out again in warmer weather). As for leaving the attic vented, the foam would then not be working efficiently as an insulation. You would be using the blown-in on the floor of the attic as your main insulation. It would be best if you could change it back to an unvented assembly. Bayer was bought out by Acella last year. I would contact them and ask if they could send someone over to investigate. They probably would send RJ Andersen. He is their technical guy that troubleshoots applications nationwide and lives in Houston. Look up Acella sprayfoam online and their Houston plant (actually in Spring, TX). Good luck, let me know how it goes.
John_N Posted: Jul 19, 2017 09:16 PM	Thank you so much for your reply Mason, I will contact Acella for additional help and will also test the foam for order per your instructions. I have one more question if you don't mind. if the foam was off-gassing, what type of VOCs should I be expecting to see in an air quality test. does the foam omits formaldehyde or toluene?
John_N Posted: Aug 17, 2017 12:32 AM	Mason, the foam it self does not smell, at least at the accessible part of the Attic, I can reach the far end of the attic. I sealed up the attic again and removed the blow in insulation. in 24 hours the smell returned back, only this time the smell was very strong in the house. it smelled like Lumber and paint. the smell is very strong, it is impossible to be in the house. it is causing eye irritation, soar throat, and difficulty breathing. could this be foam related smell. it's been 4 months since we replaced the roof shingles and the smell is just as strong as day one. The roofer said he did not use any mastic, he just replace the felt paper and shingles. I appreciate any feedback or direction on where to go from here.
mason Posted: Aug 17, 2017 09:00 PM	I would not want to offer suggestions without an inspection. You may have a ventilation problem that doesn't allow fumes and odor to dissipate properly. Call me to discuss 571-239-5221

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John_N

Posted: Jul 19, 2017 12:20 PM

very Odd issue, Please help

I have a 3 years old home in Houston, with Bayer open cell polyurethane foam in the attic, the foam is sprayed directly on the roof deck "on the sheathing". The Roof is Shingled. it is unvented attic, and the foam is sprayed at about 6 inches thick.
I had no issue with foam smell or humidity for the two years I lived in the house. Three month ago, I replaced the roof due to hail damage. the roofer replaced the shingles and the felt paper. nothing special just your standard re-roofing. that is when the problem started.
immediately after putting the new roof, same day, we start smelling a very strong chemical oder in the house. the Smell was very strong that we had to leave the house. it was mainly in the attic. but of course it made its way down to the main living area.
The oder was burning our eyes, throats and made it very hard to breath. hard to explain the order, it is like chemical, TAR, sweet and lumber combined smell.
The roofer came back and we checked everything from AC units to plumbing. everything checked okay.
but the oder was still very strong in the attic, finally after a month of trying to figuring out what happened and to get the smell out of the attic, we cut the roof top. and installed exhaust fans and Louvers to circulate the air out of the attic. which of course helped a lot. I also installed a blow-in insulation on the attic floor to keep the moisture and hot air from getting into the house.
The smell has getting much better and almost gone. but we still don't know what happened.
Is it roofing fumes that got into the house through the foam, or was it something related to the foam off-gassing?
Any idea of where the order came from, also what is the implication of having the attic vented? I am afraid to seal it back incase the order is still somehow being released in the attic.

mason

Posted: Jul 19, 2017 01:29 PM

Not sure where the odor comes from. It doesn't sound like a foam type odor. Plus I doubt it you would have no odor from the foam initially and 2 years later an odor. It may be from mastic that is used on flashing around your roof penetrations. The mastic is an asphalt based product and would have that type of odor.

The roofer might also have spilled something that is causing the odor. I could analyze a sample of the foam to determine if there was an issue, but you could do the same thing. Take a sample of foam and place it in a plastic bag. Heat it to around 100 degrees F and then smell it. If there is no chemical odor then it isn't coming from the foam. (although open cell foam and blown-in insulation can absorb odors and transmit them out again in warmer weather).

As for leaving the attic vented, the foam would then not be working efficiently as an insulation. You would be using the blown-in on the floor of the attic as your main insulation. It would be best if you could change it back to an unvented assembly.

Bayer was bought out by Acella last year. I would contact them and ask if they could send someone over to investigate. They probably would send RJ Andersen. He is their technical guy that troubleshoots applications nationwide and lives in Houston.

Look up Acella sprayfoam online and their Houston plant (actually in Spring, TX).

Good luck, let me know how it goes.

John_N

Posted: Jul 19, 2017 09:16 PM

Thank you so much for your reply Mason, I will contact Acella for additional help and will also test the foam for order per your instructions.
I have one more question if you don't mind. if the foam was off-gassing, what type of VOCs should I be expecting to see in an air quality test. does the foam omits formaldehyde or toluene?

John_N

Posted: Aug 17, 2017 12:32 AM

Mason,
the foam it self does not smell, at least at the accessible part of the Attic, I can reach the far end of the attic.

I sealed up the attic again and removed the blow in insulation. in 24 hours the smell returned back, only this time the smell was very strong in the house. it smelled like Lumber and paint. the smell is very strong, it is impossible to be in the house. it is causing eye irritation, soar throat, and difficulty breathing.
could this be foam related smell. it's been 4 months since we replaced the roof shingles and the smell is just as strong as day one. The roofer said he did not use any mastic, he just replace the felt paper and shingles.
I appreciate any feedback or direction on where to go from here.

mason

Posted: Aug 17, 2017 09:00 PM

I would not want to offer suggestions without an inspection. You may have a ventilation problem that doesn't allow fumes and odor to dissipate properly.

Call me to discuss 571-239-5221

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