Were are we | Insulation/Energy/Building Envelope Q&A | Spray Foam Technical Questions and Answers | SprayFoam Magazine Q&A Forums

Q&A Forums

Author	Comments
Mike Glace Posted: Jan 13, 2007 01:46 PM	Were are we Hey guys tell me your opinions and experiences. Do you guys think we are taking some market from fiberglass these days with more and more educating going into homeowners and new school builders it seems easier and easier too sell. I know alot of customers mainly homeowners always refer to seeing foam on "this old house" and then they give me a shot into talking and educating. So are we gaining market share and will there ever be a day when we gain market dominance in the insulation industry.
FirstName LastName Posted: Jan 13, 2007 02:40 PM	we are gaining,but we could be better. one thing i know in my area is that the guys that spray only .5 are telling potentail clients that cc is all bad,it cracks and shrinks and then you get mold etc. when they contact me i tell them the truth and NEVER bad mouth any other contractor or their foam. one foam installer talking about bad styles of foam is bad to the entire industry
Jeremy Himmel Posted: Jan 25, 2007 08:47 PM	Couldn't have said it better. The foam market has barely been touched, which is only 5% of the entire insulation market nationwide. Negative and false information about other products does nothing but hurt the foam industry as a whole. Keep it positive out there and inform the customer about YOUR product(s), the market is growing and fiberglass will soon be phased out due to health issues and it's effectiveness. So be patient and if you must talk negatively about something talk about politics or global warming, NOT FOAM.
Posted: Feb 03, 2007 04:54 PM	AMEN to that .......... now lets go politely kick some pink butt! Just state the facts and most folks make a wise choice. Them that dont.......well we are not paying their utility bills so move along. I am quite pleased here in south Texas at the reception we are getting on foam insulation. Kenneth
Melvin Chandler Posted: Feb 06, 2007 08:33 PM	If I were trying to make a living on the resi foam insulation biz here in KY, I'd be hitting the cheese line. It's amazing how intelligent the consumers are but yet they have a hard time seeing the woods for the trees. People building million dollar homes and putting in pink because of the extreme difference in price. The education issue is much larger that me. It's going to take a concerted effort by the manufacturers and associations to really put Foam in front of of the consumer. It's just a huge hurdle in a market that has no exposure.
Posted: Feb 06, 2007 08:39 PM	I agree Newby, They will glady pay $50,000 for an entertainment center or indoor swimming pool or heated fieldstone driveway, but they think fiberglass is fine why spend more. Or put fiberglass in a 20' section of wall instead of foam to save $500. It just doesn't make sense. I try to tell them politely that you get what you pay for. Either pay now or pay later. Get the best for insulation while you can or pay the fuel bills later. I can only imagine what it must cost to heat or cool an 8000-10000 square foot house. YIKES!! Tim
Richard Russell Posted: Feb 07, 2007 08:04 AM	To help inform clients about the failings of FG, use excerpts from: http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/92/920510.html This summarizes work done at the Oak Ridge Large Scale Climate Facility in the early 90s that measured the drop in R value of FG in an attic as the temperature above the attic dropped. When you have cold temperature outside, and you need all the R you can get, FG is at its worst, measured at down to half the rating claimed. In a vertical wall cavity, the effect of induced convective heat transfer should be even greater. Then add the effects of outside air leakage through the wall cavity or up through the ceiling into the attic, due to poor sealing, and ..... Of course, the article also reports that the performance of cellulose did not suffer as did the FG when it got cold out; actually, the measured R went up slightly. But you are not selling cellulose.
Thomas Kasper Posted: Feb 07, 2007 09:09 PM	Most of my jobs come from other jobs I have done, and I think that is the way it goes for other installers also. The more foam we get out their the higher the demand for foam is, but our work must be top notch every time. Good word of mouth travels and bad word of mouth travels much farther. I know we could get more foaming jobs if the raw materials weren't so expensive.
Posted: Feb 08, 2007 01:22 AM	Not knowing enough to have an informed opinion, something that sounded good to me is air sealing and filling to meet code with fiber or cellulose. Can this application be done at a price that's competitive and profitable to the contractor? If so, it seems like a great way to insulate a house for anyone who is worried about cost. Leon
Gerry Wagoner Posted: Feb 11, 2007 04:39 PM	This industry was on the very brink of a landslide of popularity in 2003. We couldn't lose, until of course the EP-dumb-A imposed a blowing agent change upon foam manufacturers & installers. The new blowing agent tripled in price because we went from 5-suppliers of 141-b to a locked market for 245fa. Thanks EPA. In the same year that the blowing agent changed over, we were hit with (5) isocyanate price increases. This was the equivalent of being hit 6-times in rapid succession by Rocky Marciano. We were punch-drunk as an industry for 2-years and are starting to come out of it, but the price of foam went from $1180 per set to $2100 in a very short period of time. These aspects have combined to greatly limit the crest of interest that was about to break in 2003. It was fascinating and discouraging to watch these two forces coalesce. My hope is that in ten years we will have regained the vantage ground that we lost in the `04/`05 years. A 42-percent increase in the cost of fiberglass would have been devastating to that industry. Time goes on.. Make the best of it. We still have a superior product, but it is being priced out of reach by the most aggressive raw material inflation in the history of insulation. olger
Posted: Feb 13, 2007 10:20 PM	what olger said,,, this marvelous product is being priced out of the mainstream market, due to the costs of the raw materials,,, before it is able to gain its full market share... we have a way to substantially reduce our nations home heating/cooling energy use,, (hint,,buy stock in the big players)
quentin Posted: Feb 21, 2007 01:18 PM	One thing I was just looking at in my area due to the recent weather is all the news about problems with water damming on roofs. Since I am still trying to get the other half on board with starting in to this, I can't push it to my advantage but it is an idea to help push for those in the right areas. After all, if the roof is insulated with foam you do not get the ice forming UNDER the snow and lifting the shingles like you do with the lesser products.

Author

Comments

Mike Glace

Posted: Jan 13, 2007 01:46 PM

Were are we

Hey guys tell me your opinions and experiences. Do you guys think we are taking some market from fiberglass these days with more and more educating going into homeowners and new school builders it seems easier and easier too sell. I know alot of customers mainly homeowners always refer to seeing foam on "this old house" and then they give me a shot into talking and educating. So are we gaining market share and will there ever be a day when we gain market dominance in the insulation industry.

FirstName LastName

Posted: Jan 13, 2007 02:40 PM

we are gaining,but we could be better. one thing i know in my area is that the guys that spray only .5 are telling potentail clients that cc is all bad,it cracks and shrinks and then you get mold etc. when they contact me i tell them the truth and NEVER bad mouth any other contractor or their foam. one foam installer talking about bad styles of foam is bad to the entire industry

Jeremy Himmel

Posted: Jan 25, 2007 08:47 PM

Couldn't have said it better. The foam market has barely been touched, which is only 5% of the entire insulation market nationwide. Negative and false information about other products does nothing but hurt the foam industry as a whole. Keep it positive out there and inform the customer about YOUR product(s), the market is growing and fiberglass will soon be phased out due to health issues and it's effectiveness. So be patient and if you must talk negatively about something talk about politics or global warming, NOT FOAM.

Posted: Feb 03, 2007 04:54 PM

AMEN to that .......... now lets go politely kick some pink butt! Just state the facts and most folks make a wise choice. Them that dont.......well we are not paying their utility bills so move along. I am quite pleased here in south Texas at the reception we are getting on foam insulation. Kenneth

Melvin Chandler

Posted: Feb 06, 2007 08:33 PM

If I were trying to make a living on the resi foam insulation biz here in KY, I'd be hitting the cheese line. It's amazing how intelligent the consumers are but yet they have a hard time seeing the woods for the trees. People building million dollar homes and putting in pink because of the extreme difference in price.

The education issue is much larger that me. It's going to take a concerted effort by the manufacturers and associations to really put Foam in front of of the consumer. It's just a huge hurdle in a market that has no exposure.

Posted: Feb 06, 2007 08:39 PM

I agree Newby,

They will glady pay $50,000 for an entertainment center or indoor swimming pool or heated fieldstone driveway, but they think fiberglass is fine why spend more. Or put fiberglass in a 20' section of wall instead of foam to save $500. It just doesn't make sense. I try to tell them politely that you get what you pay for. Either pay now or pay later. Get the best for insulation while you can or pay the fuel bills later. I can only imagine what it must cost to heat or cool an 8000-10000 square foot house. YIKES!!

Tim

Richard Russell

Posted: Feb 07, 2007 08:04 AM

To help inform clients about the failings of FG, use excerpts from:

http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/92/920510.html

This summarizes work done at the Oak Ridge Large Scale Climate Facility in the early 90s that measured the drop in R value of FG in an attic as the temperature above the attic dropped. When you have cold temperature outside, and you need all the R you can get, FG is at its worst, measured at down to half the rating claimed. In a vertical wall cavity, the effect of induced convective heat transfer should be even greater. Then add the effects of outside air leakage through the wall cavity or up through the ceiling into the attic, due to poor sealing, and .....

Of course, the article also reports that the performance of cellulose did not suffer as did the FG when it got cold out; actually, the measured R went up slightly. But you are not selling cellulose.

Thomas Kasper

Posted: Feb 07, 2007 09:09 PM

Most of my jobs come from other jobs I have done, and I think that is the way it goes for other installers also. The more foam we get out their the higher the demand for foam is, but our work must be top notch every time. Good word of mouth travels and bad word of mouth travels much farther.
I know we could get more foaming jobs if the raw materials weren't so expensive.

Posted: Feb 08, 2007 01:22 AM

Not knowing enough to have an informed opinion, something that sounded good to me is air sealing and filling to meet code with fiber or cellulose.

Can this application be done at a price that's competitive and profitable to the contractor? If so, it seems like a great way to insulate a house for anyone who is worried about cost.

Leon

Gerry Wagoner

Posted: Feb 11, 2007 04:39 PM

This industry was on the very brink of a landslide of popularity in 2003. We couldn't lose, until of course the EP-dumb-A imposed a blowing agent change upon foam manufacturers & installers. The new blowing agent tripled in price because we went from 5-suppliers of 141-b to a locked market for 245fa. Thanks EPA.

In the same year that the blowing agent changed over, we were hit with (5) isocyanate price increases. This was the equivalent of being hit 6-times in rapid succession by Rocky Marciano. We were punch-drunk as an industry for 2-years and are starting to come out of it, but the price of foam went from $1180 per set to $2100 in a very short period of time.

These aspects have combined to greatly limit the crest of interest that was about to break in 2003. It was fascinating and discouraging to watch these two forces coalesce.

My hope is that in ten years we will have regained the vantage ground that we lost in the `04/`05 years. A 42-percent increase in the cost of fiberglass would have been devastating to that industry. Time goes on.. Make the best of it.

We still have a superior product, but it is being priced out of reach by the most aggressive raw material inflation in the history of insulation.

olger

Posted: Feb 13, 2007 10:20 PM

what olger said,,,

this marvelous product is being priced out of the
mainstream market, due to the costs of the raw
materials,,, before it is able to gain its full market share...

we have a way to substantially reduce our nations home heating/cooling energy use,,

(hint,,buy stock in the big players)

quentin

Posted: Feb 21, 2007 01:18 PM

One thing I was just looking at in my area due to the recent weather is all the news about problems with water damming on roofs. Since I am still trying to get the other half on board with starting in to this, I can't push it to my advantage but it is an idea to help push for those in the right areas. After all, if the roof is insulated with foam you do not get the ice forming UNDER the snow and lifting the shingles like you do with the lesser products.

You need to login to reply to this topic. Please click here to login.