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Thomas Tisthammer Posted: Jun 30, 2008 07:44 PM	Who else does it? Today I spoke with an architect that I've known for 30 years. In fact, he was the designer on the first contract job I ever did. He was calling because a roof I installed in 1985 for the local school district was now being modified for new occupants. The local city government (also a customer of mine) had bought the building with the intent of moving city government offices into the building instead of tearing it down & putting up a new building (money is tight). He wanted to know some details about the roof because he had been on it the week before & remarked that it looked very good. When I told him it was 23 years old he did not believe me. Since the previous owner & the city fellows knew the roof's history, the age was quickly confirmed. We talked about how to make repairs that would be required by the new work inside & he asked me "Who else does these roofs? You're the only guy I know that dones them." I immediately thought of 2 things; 1st) all the designer cared about was how many people could install the roof system & 2nd) typical SPF roofs don't last 23 years. Now, this architect specifies lots of cheap, "flavor of the month" roof systems so we know that cost is his main concern. I don't expect to sell him many roofs but what bothered me most was his comment about "Who else does these roofs?" The reason there aren't many guys who do this is that cheap SPF roofs don't last very long in this part of the US (Rocky Mtns). The "guys" that put on cheap SPF roofs don't last very long here either. The reason for this is that a good, long-lasting SPF roof is not easy to install or cheap. The vendors will tell you so but it is not. Fred Gusmer chose the term "foam mechanic" for a good reason. If you are not a mechanic, you will not make it. I will be able to buy your equipment for $.10 on the dollar 5 years from now if you don't treat it well. Those of us who have made a good living in the SPF business are not "roofers". We are mechanics, we are technicans, we are waterproofers, we are insulators, we are businessmen, we are people who became familiar with a process that was too complex for the typical "roofer". It happened that the primary market that was open to us was roofing so we went for it. We tried to "fit into" the "roofing market" & that is where we blew it. The roofing market has, since the advent of the 1-ply revolution, focused on price. That was the point of entry for the new 1-ply products & it was a legitimate marketing approach. A quality SPF roof cannot compete on price with the 1-plies. They are just too cheap & anyone can install them. They are that way by design. The problem is that they don't last very long & you have to throw them into the landfill later. The SPF roof is on the other end of the spectrum. It is technically demanding to install, requires specialized equipment & highly trained personnel. What a SPF roof offers is long-lasting performance & "sustainability". Let's stop trying to "beat them at their own game" & market our systems as they should be marketed- as a high-end, long-lasting systems with documented, long-term performance & highly skilled applicators. If we don't, 5 years from now that architect will still be asking "Who else does this?......".
Michael Flander Posted: Jul 03, 2008 12:28 PM	One of the better posts I have read on here in awhile. A pleasure to read, and thanks for your comments.
Dennis Davidson Posted: Mar 16, 2009 10:50 AM	We need more spf contractors that take great pride in the "art" of spray foam roofing! I too have a few foam roofs that are older. I have a school sys. that I maintain and some of these foam roofs are in excess of 25 years old. I have one that is 19 years old that's had zero maintenance. It takes years of experience to spray a "smooth as a baby's butt" foam roof. I'm afraid though that we are going to have a large influx of interior foam contractors thinking they can spray roofs too! We cover several states and network with contractors in the south and I frequently hear that same question, "Who else does this". Even a few mfg. reps. say they can't find "qualified" foam roofers. Spray foam roofing is a high-end product and should be presented as a long term fix. But, I can't tell you how many times I've heard an engineer or the facility maintenance personal say "I just need the roof to last until I retire". It's unfortunate that the foam industry (both roofing and interior) has had to lower it's standards to remain competitive.
Posted: Mar 16, 2009 01:29 PM	Unless I read your post wrong, who cares who else does this! If I was standing on a roof that I did 23 years ago (Would have put me about 16 years old at the time) that still looked great and the new customer asked me who else did this. I would be a little perturbed also. I have been on a bunch of roofs from T&G to Single Ply, etc... and none of them last 23 years without problems. The only long term roofs that I have seen was Spray Foam and Metal that has been coated over the years. I have a competitor's SPF roof that everytime I think I am really getting good, I go over and take a look at their roof that they did in 81. Till this day, the roof still looks great. You are rightm good SPF Roofers are hard to find. We have an old saying in the Seafood Business. Cheap Fish ain't good and good fish ain't cheap! I think that hold true to more than just the fish business. If they put one of those insulation guys up on a roof trying to spray flat, it will look like snow on the rockies when they are through. It might be white, but you will see more bumps than a 15 year old with acne.

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Thomas Tisthammer

Posted: Jun 30, 2008 07:44 PM

Who else does it?

Today I spoke with an architect that I've known for 30 years. In fact, he was the designer on the first contract job I ever did. He was calling because a roof I installed in 1985 for the local school district was now being modified for new occupants. The local city government (also a customer of mine) had bought the building with the intent of moving city government offices into the building instead of tearing it down & putting up a new building (money is tight). He wanted to know some details about the roof because he had been on it the week before & remarked that it looked very good. When I told him it was 23 years old he did not believe me. Since the previous owner & the city fellows knew the roof's history, the age was quickly confirmed. We talked about how to make repairs that would be required by the new work inside & he asked me "Who else does these roofs? You're the only guy I know that dones them." I immediately thought of 2 things; 1st) all the designer cared about was how many people could install the roof system &
2nd) typical SPF roofs don't last 23 years. Now, this architect specifies lots of cheap, "flavor of the month" roof systems so we know that cost is his main concern. I don't expect to sell him many roofs but what bothered me most was his comment about "Who else does these roofs?" The reason there aren't many guys who do this is that cheap SPF roofs don't last very long in this part of the US (Rocky Mtns). The "guys" that put on cheap SPF roofs don't last very long here either. The reason for this is that a good, long-lasting SPF roof is not easy to install or cheap. The vendors will tell you so but it is not. Fred Gusmer chose the term "foam mechanic" for a good reason. If you are not a mechanic, you will not make it. I will be able to buy your equipment for $.10 on the dollar 5 years from now if you don't treat it well. Those of us who have made a good living in the SPF business are not "roofers". We are mechanics, we are technicans, we are waterproofers, we are insulators, we are businessmen, we are people who became familiar with a process that was too complex for the typical "roofer". It happened that the primary market that was open to us was roofing so we went for it. We tried to "fit into" the "roofing market" & that is where we blew it. The roofing market has, since the advent of the 1-ply revolution, focused on price. That was the point of entry for the new 1-ply products & it was a legitimate marketing approach. A quality SPF roof cannot compete on price with the 1-plies. They are just too cheap & anyone can install them. They are that way by design. The problem is that they don't last very long & you have to throw them into the landfill later. The SPF roof is on the other end of the spectrum. It is technically demanding to install, requires specialized equipment & highly trained personnel. What a SPF roof offers is long-lasting performance & "sustainability". Let's stop trying to "beat them at their own game" & market our systems as they should be marketed- as a high-end, long-lasting systems with documented, long-term performance & highly skilled applicators. If we don't, 5 years from now that architect will still be asking "Who else does this?......".

Michael Flander

Posted: Jul 03, 2008 12:28 PM

One of the better posts I have read on here in awhile. A pleasure to read, and thanks for your comments.

Dennis Davidson

Posted: Mar 16, 2009 10:50 AM

We need more spf contractors that take great pride in the "art" of spray foam roofing! I too have a few foam roofs that are older. I have a school sys. that I maintain and some of these foam roofs are in excess of 25 years old. I have one that is 19 years old that's had zero maintenance. It takes years of experience to spray a "smooth as a baby's butt" foam roof. I'm afraid though that we are going to have a large influx of interior foam contractors thinking they can spray roofs too!
We cover several states and network with contractors in the south and I frequently hear that same question, "Who else does this". Even a few mfg. reps. say they can't find "qualified" foam roofers.
Spray foam roofing is a high-end product and should be presented as a long term fix. But, I can't tell you how many times I've heard an engineer or the facility maintenance personal say "I just need the roof to last until I retire". It's unfortunate that the foam industry (both roofing and interior) has had to lower it's standards to remain competitive.

Posted: Mar 16, 2009 01:29 PM

Unless I read your post wrong, who cares who else does this! If I was standing on a roof that I did 23 years ago (Would have put me about 16 years old at the time) that still looked great and the new customer asked me who else did this.

I would be a little perturbed also. I have been on a bunch of roofs from T&G to Single Ply, etc... and none of them last 23 years without problems. The only long term roofs that I have seen was Spray Foam and Metal that has been coated over the years.

I have a competitor's SPF roof that everytime I think I am really getting good, I go over and take a look at their roof that they did in 81. Till this day, the roof still looks great.

You are rightm good SPF Roofers are hard to find. We have an old saying in the Seafood Business. Cheap Fish ain't good and good fish ain't cheap!

I think that hold true to more than just the fish business.

If they put one of those insulation guys up on a roof trying to spray flat, it will look like snow on the rockies when they are through. It might be white, but you will see more bumps than a 15 year old with acne.

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